La Cucaracha
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As the British army surplus thread has been so successful i thought it might be an idea to see what the rest of the world does well. What do you own from other forces that you would recommend?
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Army surplus rest of the world
- Thread starter La Cucaracha
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Erbswurst
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All Flecktarn stuff is good.
It's usually constructed far lighter than the equipment from other Nato armies. And so it's very interesting for civil use, especially trekking.
Older olive green or grey Bundeswehr stuff is usually bad. Long lasting but heavy and never drying if whet.
Only exceptions are the three generations of mountain troop rucksacks 34 litres, the Feldhemd (shirt), the tent sheets, the 600 to 800g Poncho and the olive green or marine blue prototypes of the Flecktarn equipment. Nearly every Flecktarn stuff existed for a very short time in a few units at first in plain olive green.
But that good green prototypes left the surplus market.
The 80ies sleeping bag with arms is idiotic rubbish, the younger quilted one OK for the boat or cottage, the Carinthia Tropen OK but not as good as Snugpacks SF system. Especially the Defence 4 is too large for 95% of all people and so to cold for the weight.
Newest German clothing made by Carinthia in olive green or Flecktarn is very good.
Bundeswehr Kochgeschirr / Essgeschirr (Mess kit) is great for wood fire use, OK with Esbit stove, but horribly with gas stoves.
The bottom isn't plane!
Currently only available as Austrian Army mess kit! The Dutch used it too. (Attention, falsed stuff on the market!)
German cutlery kit is great for camping, boat and car, but heavy.
The Wehrmacht folding spork "Göffel" still available from Relags is far better for trekking. Especially as long barbeque fork!
Every Wehrmacht personal equipment was outstanding good quality, when made before 1944. unfortunately the prices became totally crazy!
GDR stuff most times looks similar but was made in bad quality.
But "ein Strich kein Strich" NVA field uniforms and tent sheets are good.
BGS stuff is good. That's western border police, had been an army after WW2.
The stuff is seldom, old in Wehrmacht camouflage pattern, later in green.
The older stuff is Wehrmacht stuff made after WW2.
All old Camouflage Austrian equipment doesn't look only like Waffen SS stuff, it had the same quality. Lasts a lifetime and longer.
Olive green Austrian field uniforms exist in pure cotton or round about 50:50 Polyester Cotton Mix like this horrible expensive Fjälräven stuff. the Austrian stuff has a far better quality. I highly recommend the cheap olive green Austrian polyester-cotton field uniforms!
Especially shirt and trousers 75, jacket KAZ 02, boots light and heavy. (But not the new looking boots model from last year, which is totally rubbish, simply an idiotic Idea and not more)
And I recommend Goretex Feldjacke leicht in US M 65 stile.
But the older Feldjacke 75 is more or less the US M65. I dont like it. A lot of people love it.
I don't own KAZ 03 Equipment, but it looks very interesting!!!
Since last year they change to a new camouflage pattern. Who wants green Austrian field uniforms, should buy it soon.
Most equipment that Carinthia offers to everybody is currently used in Bundeswehr and Austrian Bundesheer too.
It's phantasticly good stuff.
But the sleeping bag System Tropem/Defence 4 isn't as good constructed as the younger Snugpack Special Forces System, which is similar but far better.
But the (simple) Carinthia Army Bivvy bag is very interesting!!! But heavy. I prefere the Snugpack SF bivvy bag.
Essl stuff currently isn't issued, but allowed in the Austrian Army. A lot of soldiers buy it.
Fore example this new but relatively cheap Rucksack here:
Essl RU 5026 Kaderrucksack 40 litres
(or RU 502 Kaderrucksack with 35 litres)
The German Bundeswehr currently uses mainly Berghaus Rucksacks from UK (Munro for example). I don't own it, but they seem to be very good.
Swiss stuff looks somehow strange to mee.
I never bought newer stuff.
But the old swiss grey cotton"Salt and Pepper" stuff and all old leather stuff from , don't know, before 1945 ???, is incredibly good quality. Absolutely bomb proof! Lasts far longer than a mans life time.
Very heavy, very good stuff!
The old Swiss cork closure Flask with nesting mug is very lovely and funny, but small and heavy. The mess kit looks similar to german stuff, but you need an extra long spoon!
;0)
It's usually constructed far lighter than the equipment from other Nato armies. And so it's very interesting for civil use, especially trekking.
Older olive green or grey Bundeswehr stuff is usually bad. Long lasting but heavy and never drying if whet.
Only exceptions are the three generations of mountain troop rucksacks 34 litres, the Feldhemd (shirt), the tent sheets, the 600 to 800g Poncho and the olive green or marine blue prototypes of the Flecktarn equipment. Nearly every Flecktarn stuff existed for a very short time in a few units at first in plain olive green.
But that good green prototypes left the surplus market.
The 80ies sleeping bag with arms is idiotic rubbish, the younger quilted one OK for the boat or cottage, the Carinthia Tropen OK but not as good as Snugpacks SF system. Especially the Defence 4 is too large for 95% of all people and so to cold for the weight.
Newest German clothing made by Carinthia in olive green or Flecktarn is very good.
Bundeswehr Kochgeschirr / Essgeschirr (Mess kit) is great for wood fire use, OK with Esbit stove, but horribly with gas stoves.
The bottom isn't plane!
Currently only available as Austrian Army mess kit! The Dutch used it too. (Attention, falsed stuff on the market!)
German cutlery kit is great for camping, boat and car, but heavy.
The Wehrmacht folding spork "Göffel" still available from Relags is far better for trekking. Especially as long barbeque fork!
Every Wehrmacht personal equipment was outstanding good quality, when made before 1944. unfortunately the prices became totally crazy!
GDR stuff most times looks similar but was made in bad quality.
But "ein Strich kein Strich" NVA field uniforms and tent sheets are good.
BGS stuff is good. That's western border police, had been an army after WW2.
The stuff is seldom, old in Wehrmacht camouflage pattern, later in green.
The older stuff is Wehrmacht stuff made after WW2.
All old Camouflage Austrian equipment doesn't look only like Waffen SS stuff, it had the same quality. Lasts a lifetime and longer.
Olive green Austrian field uniforms exist in pure cotton or round about 50:50 Polyester Cotton Mix like this horrible expensive Fjälräven stuff. the Austrian stuff has a far better quality. I highly recommend the cheap olive green Austrian polyester-cotton field uniforms!
Especially shirt and trousers 75, jacket KAZ 02, boots light and heavy. (But not the new looking boots model from last year, which is totally rubbish, simply an idiotic Idea and not more)
And I recommend Goretex Feldjacke leicht in US M 65 stile.
But the older Feldjacke 75 is more or less the US M65. I dont like it. A lot of people love it.
I don't own KAZ 03 Equipment, but it looks very interesting!!!
Since last year they change to a new camouflage pattern. Who wants green Austrian field uniforms, should buy it soon.
Most equipment that Carinthia offers to everybody is currently used in Bundeswehr and Austrian Bundesheer too.
It's phantasticly good stuff.
But the sleeping bag System Tropem/Defence 4 isn't as good constructed as the younger Snugpack Special Forces System, which is similar but far better.
But the (simple) Carinthia Army Bivvy bag is very interesting!!! But heavy. I prefere the Snugpack SF bivvy bag.
Essl stuff currently isn't issued, but allowed in the Austrian Army. A lot of soldiers buy it.
Fore example this new but relatively cheap Rucksack here:
Essl RU 5026 Kaderrucksack 40 litres
(or RU 502 Kaderrucksack with 35 litres)
The German Bundeswehr currently uses mainly Berghaus Rucksacks from UK (Munro for example). I don't own it, but they seem to be very good.
Swiss stuff looks somehow strange to mee.
I never bought newer stuff.
But the old swiss grey cotton"Salt and Pepper" stuff and all old leather stuff from , don't know, before 1945 ???, is incredibly good quality. Absolutely bomb proof! Lasts far longer than a mans life time.
Very heavy, very good stuff!
The old Swiss cork closure Flask with nesting mug is very lovely and funny, but small and heavy. The mess kit looks similar to german stuff, but you need an extra long spoon!
;0)
Last edited:
Harry Palmer
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US army mess kit, started life in WW2 as 'Mountain Cook Kit' Aluminium pots stainless steel lid/fry pan
www.endicotts.co.uk
U.S Ali / S'Steel Mess Set. N.O.S. | Endicotts
Genuine U.S new old stock ''Cook Set. Field. 5-Man'Made in the 1960's these have been in deep store for over 50 years!In to us with original packaging albeit we have de-canted to check exact grade etc.Consists of two aluminum nesting pots and a stainless steel lid. Becoming scarce.Stats;
I like to collect East German stuff and use a forum which concentrates on eastern bloc re-enactment ,militaria and airsoft . It's a bit of a standing joke that serious collectors embrace the shoddyness
It's also said that the plastic water bottles have the ability to make even the most capitalist of water taste sweet. The water bottle isn't a bad item to be fair although the little mug that comes with it always seems a bit of a waste of time to me. The sturmpack is ok for a cheap simple daypack and the internet shows many using them as bike panniers .
Harry Palmer
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I'm a fan of the US M65 trousers, get the genuine ones made by Helikon
Helikon used to make a lot of stuff for the US military, not sure what they supply the military with in these days of buying cheap from China.
HELIKON GENUINE BDU MILITARY COMBAT PANTS ARMY CARGO COTTON TROUSERS OLIVE GREEN | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HELIKON GENUINE BDU MILITARY COMBAT PANTS ARMY CARGO COTTON TROUSERS OLIVE GREEN at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
www.ebay.co.uk
Helikon used to make a lot of stuff for the US military, not sure what they supply the military with in these days of buying cheap from China.
Harry Palmer
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US Army Sleep System, two sleeping bags and a bivy making it a four season setup. I had one but found it snug so sold it only to find out you can get a 'Long' version which I never got 
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2 Czech army sleeping systems... reasonable down to -1 or 2 at a push... probably more when they were new also a British army 100l bergan... not tried this out yet but it looks the part.
also a British army 100l bergan... not tried this out yet but it looks the part.
Erbswurst
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Currently the Bundeswehr uses very large Berghaus Rucksacks too.
No Idea who is able to carry them. Perhaps they just pull it from the barrack to the jeep, but the stuff exists and costs round about 100 € used.
Should once the Räer Hildesheim homepage work for Britain too, you could see and order the stuff there. But perhaps it's available at british surplus sites too.
No Idea who is able to carry them. Perhaps they just pull it from the barrack to the jeep, but the stuff exists and costs round about 100 € used.
Should once the Räer Hildesheim homepage work for Britain too, you could see and order the stuff there. But perhaps it's available at british surplus sites too.
Harry Palmer
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Lot of British troops carry the likes of 120l Bergen packs for mile after mile, its down to training... they are not lightweight LOL
Bam
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Erbswurst
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The point is the training and theyr age too.
I am not against buying a large rucksack for winter camping. No, I own several 65 litres German army rucksacks with option to attach a winter sleeping bag on top of it and I own also a 90 litres high end quality civil product too, which isn't longer available, because it's a Swedish made Expedition Rucksack, from a firm which currently produces only dog walking stuff in Asia.
Filled with winter sleeping bag and additional warm layers, for example a British Softy suit or Carinthia Lig, Mig, Hig, or similar plastik fibres filled padded jackets, that's of course portable for strong and trained younger people.
I just recommend to beginners 6kg base weight in summer times and 16 kg maximal complete weight for winter hiking, because most beginners who make office jobs can't carry more. And they should know it, before they buy stuff.
And I mention the necessity to add heavy food and water to that 16 kg on longer autark hikes in Scandinavian forests for example.
And what often happens to young men who hike as well is the following:
It's possible that sometimes they have to carry on top of theyr own rucksacks the rucksack of theyr girl friends!
Every hiker I know had to do that in some cases of emergency. Girls usually simply are to weak to carry theyr own stuff for more than round about 6 to 8 hours, even if that's only 6 to 10 kilogram total weight.
And than aha, oho! My 16 kg become suddenly 22 or 26, because little darling didn't hear when we told her, she could only carry 6kg.
And than the usual hiking student suddenly has to carry the load of a soldier in an elite unite, and that without special training every day!
I am not against buying a large rucksack for winter camping. No, I own several 65 litres German army rucksacks with option to attach a winter sleeping bag on top of it and I own also a 90 litres high end quality civil product too, which isn't longer available, because it's a Swedish made Expedition Rucksack, from a firm which currently produces only dog walking stuff in Asia.
Filled with winter sleeping bag and additional warm layers, for example a British Softy suit or Carinthia Lig, Mig, Hig, or similar plastik fibres filled padded jackets, that's of course portable for strong and trained younger people.
I just recommend to beginners 6kg base weight in summer times and 16 kg maximal complete weight for winter hiking, because most beginners who make office jobs can't carry more. And they should know it, before they buy stuff.
And I mention the necessity to add heavy food and water to that 16 kg on longer autark hikes in Scandinavian forests for example.
And what often happens to young men who hike as well is the following:
It's possible that sometimes they have to carry on top of theyr own rucksacks the rucksack of theyr girl friends!
Every hiker I know had to do that in some cases of emergency. Girls usually simply are to weak to carry theyr own stuff for more than round about 6 to 8 hours, even if that's only 6 to 10 kilogram total weight.
And than aha, oho! My 16 kg become suddenly 22 or 26, because little darling didn't hear when we told her, she could only carry 6kg.
And than the usual hiking student suddenly has to carry the load of a soldier in an elite unite, and that without special training every day!
Harry Palmer
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Bam, your right of course, no pongo would dare carry more than 16Kg
Erbswurst you say 6Kg for a beginner...nope you need to up that a tad.
Erbswurst you say 6Kg for a beginner...nope you need to up that a tad.
Erbswurst
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With exclusively used surplus stuff it's more of course, even if one chooses the lightest stuff.
But with a mix of newest military equipment, well chosen used lightweight surplus and a bit of ultra light civil equipment its no miracle to reach 6kg base weight.
How that works, I explained in the thread "How light is lightweight?".
Of course you have to add water and food to it, so in the end you reach around 8,5 kg total weight.
But with a mix of newest military equipment, well chosen used lightweight surplus and a bit of ultra light civil equipment its no miracle to reach 6kg base weight.
How that works, I explained in the thread "How light is lightweight?".
Of course you have to add water and food to it, so in the end you reach around 8,5 kg total weight.
lol
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With the exception of my British Army 90 sleeping bag...all my surplus stuff if foreign....
Polish lavvu
French F1 cotton pup
Swedish Army Trangia
Swedish LK35 pack
Swedish 15l daypack
American Alice pack
Czech blanket sleeping bags
Czech mess tins................and so on...........
Polish lavvu
French F1 cotton pup
Swedish Army Trangia
Swedish LK35 pack
Swedish 15l daypack
American Alice pack
Czech blanket sleeping bags
Czech mess tins................and so on...........
Harry Palmer
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2 litres of water is 2KG plus food.
Erbswurst you like lightweight camping but you must under stand that many, many campers/bushcrafters simply do not. Advocating a beginner sticks to around 6KG of kit is not doable for those who can't afford quality lightweight kit, in fact it could be dangerous.