Cautionary tale about Han Wag boots.

[Ystranc]

Hungary isn’t renowned for high quality foot ware but since these HanWag hiking boots were in Gibbs outdoors (in Brecon) and I trust Gibbs outdoors to be quality retailers I thought I’d give them a shot. Six months on I’m regretting buying them.
I’m unsure if the fault lies with the manufacture or materials of the Vibram sole but it’s outer shell has degraded, exposing the foam cushion inner and causing the sole to delaminate.
To be fair, the rest of the boots uppers, rand, eyelets etc are still spot on and they have been comfortable and waterproof which makes it even more of a shame that the sole has failed so badly.

 

[divebuddy]

Wow! Any idea how many miles they've done? Can you get them re-soled?

 

[Ark79]

Not good

 

[Bopdude]

Try a complaint in store, surely you'll be covered under law?

 

[Madriverrob]

That shouldn't have happened , I'd ask them to have a look with a view to being replaced as faulty .....

 

[Sharpfinger]

Hanwag is an old German company in Bavaria.
I have used their footwear for decades for hiking, mountaineering and other types of demanding deployments and very rarely had issues with them. They were often in direct competition with Meindl (not too far from Hanwag if I remember correctly) as far as quality and design went.

In more recent times they appear to have franchised construction out to such places as Croatia and Hungary.
It might be a quality control issue with your boots however, your images look very much like an issue which happened with a number of other brands which had switched from a thick composite rubber sole with deep cleat patterns to a thin outer sole bonded to an EVA mid sole for better cushioning.

The problem was that the midsole began to degrade from the point of manufacture! (even in the boxes!) due to moisture ingress into the midsole material itself and then continued, getting worse as the boots were used. (I have a pair of new old stock Meindl desert fox boots in my garage with uppers in as-new condition and the soles hanging off after only a relatively short time in storage and then only two weeks of wear!

This issue is well documented on the internet across a wide range of footwear types using the same materials and construction methods and I’ll bet that it is known amongst footwear manufacturers and retailers too (if not, it should be).
I would contact the retailer and ask for a replacement pair whilst THEY pursue a solution with Hanwag. You’ll find out how good a retailer they are!
If that fails I think that you should contact Hanwag in Germany.

Incidentally, at the time that I had the issue with the Meindls there were a few companies offering a resole service - (different construction and materials) at 80 quid a time! Needless to say that‘s why they are still in the garage.

Good luck

 

[Sharpfinger]

I dug out the boots mentioned in the previous post. Here’s some phots!

 

[1 shot willie]

Oh hell.....that is not good at all .....a shame as they look like very comfortable boots.
Might be worth....even now.....contacting the maker....send them the pictures and ask what they can do for you.
If they are less than helpful....personally......I would have to parcel them up and send them back to them.......with a polite note telling them to shove them where the sun does not shine
Have you done any searches to see if other users have had the same problem.....and what....if any..... response they had from the company?

 

[Sharpfinger]

If your post is aimed me 1Shot you are correct, I find them extremely comfortable which is why I kept them. I did major research and found that only a few companies would/could repair them at the stated cost. Apparently it’s a bit of a complex process. One day when I’m flush I might get them sorted.

Of note is that during my research I came across a pair of later manufactured Meindl Desert Fox boots in a surplus store with a completely different mid and outer sole. I believe that they’d been specified by the Dutch military.
The mid and outer sole unit appeared far more robust and almost identical to a pair of AKU boots I’d been issued with decades before the most recently issued (AKU) British combat boot.

 

[1 shot willie]

Yes it was ....good luck.

 

[Sharpfinger]

AND - how about this!

The attached image shows the damage on a pair of Lowas which I purchased when the above Meindls failed so quickly.

Look familiar Ystranc?

The Lowas were made in Croatia.

To be fair they are two and a half years old and have done a fair few miles.
I bought them as a spring/summer season boot to replace the Meindls, which were bought to replace a pair of Aigles which I’d used for about 5 years until the Gore lining failed.
And the Lowas have been used into and through this winter (to limit the use on my Le Chemeau Kevlars which cost an arm and a foot! And I can’t have this happening to them too quickly ).

Although I’m a svelte 15 (or is it 16?) stones, (OK, there may be a better term than svelte ), I’m always carrying a ruck, nowadays with not usually more than 30lbs so that does put a couple of additional stones on the boots.

But on the other hand I’m almost exclusively on heath and woodland surfaces so I would have expected the outsole to have lasted better.

I expect that the designers/manufacturers will argue that the pay-off of a shock absorbing but not long lasting midsole with a thin not very durable outsole is less limb damage.

Notably the current British Army boot (of similar construction, has something like a maximum two year life span, 6 months in arduous use.
And they’re selling on the civilian market.

I think some redesign to the outer edge of the outer sole, perhaps thicker material, should be carried out.

 

[Ystranc]

That looks like the same issue…I’ve also had a pair of Lowa desert boots that did the exact same as your Meindl boots. I stuck the soles back on with shoe-goo. A temporary fix but I got another summer out of them.

 

[Sharpfinger]

That looks like the same issue…I’ve also had a pair of Lowa desert boots that did the exact same as your Meindl boots. I stuck the soles back on with shoe-goo. A temporary fix but I got another summer out of them.

That’s good. It might work but if you zoom in on the third phot you can just about make out that the midsole material is a bit like the stuff that they put in vases to poke flower stems into. (It might be the same stuff!)
You can rub it with your thumb and it practically disintegrates.
I’ll keep shoe goo in mind if I decide not to go the expensive route.

 

[38thfoot]

Part of the problem comes from buying boots specified by the military to do what they want them to, not what subsequent buyers need them to do.

For an infantryman a pair of boots that is comfortable to run, train and fight in and doesn’t cause long term knee damage but gets replaced (for free to the end user) on a regular basis is preferable to boots that will last non-military users a lifetime. Dessert boots tend to be especially prone to this as to make them light and breathable means reducing material thickness which has a knock on impact on longevity.

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[Sharpfinger]

Part of the problem comes from buying boots specified by the military to do what they want them to, not what subsequent buyers need them to do.

For an infantryman a pair of boots that is comfortable to run, train and fight in and doesn’t cause long term knee damage but gets replaced (for free to the end user) on a regular basis is preferable to boots that will last non-military users a lifetime. Dessert boots tend to be especially prone to this as to make them light and breathable means reducing material thickness which has a knock on impact on longevity.

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I take your point re the military boots, though as I mentioned the Dutch didn’t seem to make a mullock of it.
Perhaps that was with the hindsight of what occurred with the British version, though on the strength of the litany of crap procurement examples of the MOD my money would be on that they went for the cheapest option.

(I’m sure I’ve got an image of a pair of those Dutch ones that I mentioned somewhere, nowt exotic and good, existing materials and production method). I will seek it out. It is similar if not the same as the Meindl Douvre hunting boot. (See image)

BUT - I don’t think that Ystranc’s boots in the O.P. are a specific military product and my Lowas defo aren’t.
I think that (certain parts of) the boot manufacturing industry seem to have gone the same route, (perhaps in order to win military contracts?) away from the thick, vibram, cleated sole to the thin and not so deeply cleated outsole with a thicker, softer and less resilient midsole. In my experience when that thin outsole wears through the midsole wears and collapses frighteningly fast!

A number of manufacturers who produce for the hunting fraternity have taken the same route - Meindl and Le Chemeau for example.
I purchased the Le Chemeaus with their Kevlar-upper, for two reasons -
i) (theoretically) more abrasion resistance to bramble and gorse than leather, which I found could be badly shredded and gashed within months (I wear my boots at least 5 days a week); And that has worked.
ii) (promised, by Le Chemeau!) better adhesion of the rubber rand between the sole and lower (Kevlar) part of the upper which I had experienced on Hanwags, Meindls and Lowas. The claim was that a rubber rand could never be permanently adhered to a leather upper due to a small amount of moisture being released by the leather as the (hot) adhesion process took place, but that this want the case with a Kevlar upper - Wrong! See image.

But I bought them at the possible cost of those thin outsoles and soft mid soles wearing through too soon!
I may regret not going for the Meindls in the end.

The cynic in me believes it’s more about quicker repurchase turn around for the manufacturer/retailers than longevity for the consumer.

 

[38thfoot]

Although not specific to those models a lot of the manufacturers do produce military models so it may be a case that they’ve moved to a single style of footbed that they use for all models or that consumers want comfort now rather than hobnail longevity. It may as you said be about reselling new boots but that’s a delicate balancing act of not pushing repeat custom to someone else.

In terms of procurement boots are one of the relative success stories in that they have taken on board criticism and brought new models in (based largely it seems on blokes wanting whatever the SF are using).

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[Sharpfinger]

Although not specific to those models a lot of the manufacturers do produce military models so it may be a case that they’ve moved to a single style of footbed that they use for all models or that consumers want comfort now rather than hobnail longevity. It may as you said be about reselling new boots but that’s a delicate balancing act of not pushing repeat custom to someone else.

In terms of procurement boots are one of the relative success stories in that they have taken on board criticism and brought new models in (based largely it seems on blokes wanting whatever the SF are using).

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I agree.
Based on the outsole heel wear pattern in particular they could create a deeper outsole outer edge for better wear and consequently deeper cleats for better grip.

Those Lowas of mine had little more than a training shoe depth cleat and we’re rubbish on even slightly wet surfaces. I initially assumed that it was just the newness of sole compound and that with wear, grip would improve but it never did.
The deep cleat on the Desert Foxes appealed and is one reason I bought them (cheap I might add!).

Notably, the soles on the Lowas and the Aigles they replaced would squeak on wet grass, not what you need when you’re lurking about. The Le Chemeaus by contrast don’t.

aaah yes, I’d forgotten about that last bit, very true. Back in the day we referred to it as ‘Gucci’ kit. Nowadays I think the term is ‘ally’.

 

[Ystranc]

I did find that my Meindle douvre extreme soles wore quickly but the didn’t suffer the same catastrophic failure of the outer sole.

 

[Sharpfinger]

Bump!

I knew that I had an image of the Dutch version of those Meindl Desert Foxes with the better mid/outer sole construction somewhere!

 

[38thfoot]

Maybe different batches, certainly some of the niche manufacturers outsourced production when they got military orders of a hundred thousand rather than their usual 50 pairs a month!

Part of it is people want different things; not even 20 years ago you’d expect to break a pair of boots in; nowadays people want them to be comfortable straight out the box, from a military point of view they need to be comfortable so deployed soldiers aren’t crippled by a new pair of boots.

My first pair of issued dessert boots had hard moulded souls that transmitted every shock, my last issue pair were immeasurably more comfortable from the get go! Longevity and immediate comfort are probably not available concurrently, especially in dessert boots which are engineered to be as cool and light as possible.

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