double bit?

[teef]

any one got hands-on experience using a small double-bit axe? i've used large, double-bit felling axes and they are a whole different thing (great fun to throw btw ). the thing i'm thinking of would be about the length of your forearm as opposed to the full arm-span of a felling axe.

in the book "Forest Life" (2018, but the material was originally published in 1884) George Washington Sears -- aka "Nessmuk" -- talks about using a small, hatchet-sized, double bit axe as his EDC belt axe. the cool idea is that he sharpened his asymmetrically: one bit to 35-ish degrees for heavy chopping (knots, bone, splitting, etc) and the other to 25-ish degrees for finer work (carving and such like).

i do a fair amount of small, carving type work -- spoons, spatulas, etc -- and i find this whole notion rather tantalizing. with the right shape and weight such a thing could do a lot of camp chores nicely, and be totally suitable for some nice, sit-down carving.

so, what do we think: BS or the best of both worlds? Nessmuk seemed to think the latter, he raves on about the thing but then he had his custom made so who knows what woodsy wisdom brought his into being.

 

[teef]

for those Dave Canterbury fans out there here are his thoughts on the matter:

suffice it to say he's not a fan: "if you're not a professional woodsman making your living with your axe you have no business with a double bit ... too dangerous and too limited" is, I think, a fair summary.

well, no disrespect to Dave but lots of things are dangerous if you use them carelessly or around children. that's hardly a good reason to disregard them when it comes to choosing and using your tools, assuming you have enough experience to respect sharp blades and aren't running a daycare.

 

[Ystranc]

I think there is a bit of professional snobbery in his implying that

"if you're not a professional woodsman making your living with your axe you have no business with a double bit ... too dangerous and too limited"

A double bit axe is seen as a bit of an affectation in the UK but they're very popular in Central/Eastern Europe. There are also a great many axe/adze combination tools used in green woodworking. Each to his own, if you manage to injure someone else they were standing too close...plain and simple.
If you injure yourself it's a valuable lesson in axe safety that you won't forget.

 

[teef]

If you injure yourself it's a valuable lesson in axe safety that you won't forget.

not like i've ever had one of those before. a lifelong love affair with sharp bladed things will do that for you.

 

[teef]

and your point about it being a Central/Eastern Europe thing is well taken. it's actually a bladesmith in the Ukraine that is offering these, he's quite popular on Etsy. he says he's happy to do the asymmetrical bevels for no extra charge which is nice. i may have a new axe in my future. guess i won't be showing it off to Mr Canterbury if he ever happens to wander into camp.

 

[Ystranc]

Good for you, I like the sound of it. I'm a bit of a stick in the mud when it comes to my Elwells but I've had a few Eastern European axes and they were all good.

 

[38thfoot]

I’d end up using the wrong blade on every occasion!

I find a lot of “professional bush crafters” slightly condescending in that they are occasionally slightly guilty of defending their point at the pinnacle of knowledge rather than giving a balanced opinion.

Here in the UK you can get a certified bushcraft instructor qualification but he list of requirements is set by a cable of already qualified instructors so what they believe is important in term an of best practice.

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[Ystranc]

I’d end up using the wrong blade on every occasion!

I find a lot of “professional bush crafters” slightly condescending in that they are occasionally slightly guilty of defending their point at the pinnacle of knowledge rather than giving a balanced opinion.

Here in the UK you can get a certified bushcraft instructor qualification but he list of requirements is set by a cable of already qualified instructors so what they believe is important in term an of best practice.

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Yet anyone with access to land can set up bushcraft courses whether they're skilled or not. Quite a few couldn't find their own arse with both hands.
We must remember that to these guys at the top it is a source of revenue, a business with books, tv and merchandising being the gold at the end of the rainbow....making up and selling qualifications is just one facet of the business. To do that they need to convince the rest of us of how little we know.
As for me? I would have no idea what/how to teach. I'm just living the famous five lifestyle for myself.

 

[teef]

if i'm reading between the lines correctly i think you guys feel pretty much that same about this as i do. i follow a dozen or more bushcrafters on U-tube and i've noticed one glaringly obvious difference between the "professionals" and the "enthusiastic amateurs": the guys who make a living at it always know the "right way" to do things. i guess that's what makes them professionals.

to be fair there is one big exception to what i've just said: a number of the "pros" from the British Isles are actually pretty humble guys and tend much more toward the "i like doing it this way **shows you how** but you may prefer this way **demonstrates alternative** or this way **demonstrates yet another way**". generally a pretty good bunch, imho.

i can't resist: one of the reasons Canterbury gives for not using a double bit axe is that if you sling it over your shoulder and are walking along through the woods one of the bits might bite you in the back. seriously? when he said that i decided he was talking to wannabes from the office and not anyone who had actually ever carried an axe and used it for anything more than abusing little saplings around their numbered site at a managed campground.

 

[38thfoot]

I think part of the problem is it’s a relatively new professional industry which has gained popularity at a time when free amateur information couldn’t be more freely available. Those making a living from teaching are keen to maintain their position of excellence.

I’ve seen it at a lower level in the forest school world where at a gathering intended to share best practice it was very clear that the organiser regarded his opinions as best practice and ignored everyone else, even if others had actually far more experience at practically doing what he was describing.

Maybe it’s a factor that the subject of bushcraft is an open ended topic that differs based on environment and need rather than an exact science. Everyone will have a slightly different view of what it involves and hence best practice changes as well.

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