Gobsmacked!!!

[Keith]

I recently started a discussion on Reddit (I have since cancelled my registration!) regarding the lack of support shown to muzzle-loader owners by the rest of the firearms community. As an example I mentioned that I had started a petition to have reproduction flintlock, wheellock & matchlock pistols placed on a less restrictive licence than they are at present classed in with modern semi-automatic handguns.

My reasoning being that (A) these same pistols as antiques have no restrictions at all accept that legally they can't be fired. Criminals are not going to obey the law anyway. And (B) that any licenced gun owner that suddenly decided to commit a criminal act using a firearm would simply cut down a long arm to make it concealable.

The replies & got vilified me for suggesting that shooters did not support muzzleloaders. One said he always supported muzzleloaders & the reason they got less support was because muzzleloaders are a minority???!!!

This reply & others stated that an H class licence was for pistols & that all pistols should be restricted; pistols could not be placed on any other licence because they were not longarms; All pistols are concealable & therefore a danger & could be used by criminals; criminals would not use an antique pistol because they are not considered safe to fire; from here some of them got quite rude, so I cancelled notifications & my registration.

It is inconceivable to me that none of these people could see my point, & in doing so proved my point that the majority of modern gun owners do not support muzzleloaders. Only 7 people signed my petition, & I advertised it on all major firearms forums, associations & groups. Some of these 7 were in America!!!

My suggestion was that these primitive muzzle-loading pistols be made available on either one of the less restrictive licenses such as an A or B class licence, or they have a licence classification of their own which is less restrictive. At present in order to own a matchlock pistol or similar you have to join a pistol club, & you can only use that pistol on the club range. This means that living historians & historical reenactors are unable to own these pistols. Yet if they can afford it, they can own an antique!

What are your thought? Am I not being reasonable in my expectations/request? Or am I missing something here?
Keith.

 

[Ark79]

Am would say your request is fair and reasonable Keith. So called licensing is in place so the authorities can keep track of who has what. Witch is fair. What’s not fair is punishing the respectable and responsible people who own guns like yourself with reasons such as concealment and they may be used for crime. The people who use these guns for crime and intimidation are not going to apply for a license anyway (as you said)So I see no harm in responsible people owning the hand guns you mentioned.

There should be a levy for circumstances for these kind of hand guns anyway. Especially within the re-enactment groups.

Good luck with it all Keith

 

[Keith]

I have this mental picture of a bank robber carrying a matchlock pistol concealed under his jacket with smoke from his burning clothing engulfing him
Keith.

 

[The Boogie Man]

On a happy note, I have just been cleared to shoot at the Gun club I applied to, Bows though,although I might consider getting a smoke pole or two.

 

[Ystranc]

There has been an issue in the UK recently with Italian made copies/replicas of the percussion cap Colt single action .44. They're a black powder gun holding a removable six shot cylinder magazine. The made it onto the market illegally as antiques which they're not. Since they use a bullet mould and refillable percussion caps they are effectively beyond control. A big intimidating firearm that is indistinguishable from an antique, capable of causing a lot of harm in the wrong hands.
This may have damaged your cause as far as licensing authorities are concerned. Every time an issue like this occurs the UK authorities use it as a pretext to tighten gun laws, just be thankful that they continue to make an allowance for real antique muzzle loaders and historic black powder pistols.

 

[Keith]

There has been an issue in the UK recently with Italian made copies/replicas of the percussion cap Colt single action .44. They're a black powder gun holding a removable six shot cylinder magazine. The made it onto the market illegally as antiques which they're not. Since they use a bullet mould and refillable percussion caps they are effectively beyond control. A big intimidating firearm that is indistinguishable from an antique, capable of causing a lot of harm in the wrong hands.
This may have damaged your cause as far as licensing authorities are concerned. Every time an issue like this occurs the UK authorities use it as a pretext to tighten gun laws, just be thankful that they continue to make an allowance for real antique muzzle loaders and historic black powder pistols.

That is why I stated clearly that it was only for flintlocks, wheellocks & matchlocks, NOT percussion.

An old very poor image of the cap & ball revolver I used to strap on every morning in the Territory. It was legal there then.
Keith.

 

[greenbear]

That has the look of a Colt Navy Keith....

 

[Ystranc]

I have stated many times that it is my opinion that the government uses any reason to curtail the legal rights of legitimate firearm owners, the first paragraph of my post (9:47am) only referred to an ongoing issue within the UK that has some bearing on ownership/licensing of antique or firearms of historical interest. There is currently no new legislation in the pipeline to change the law relating to historical black powder or muzzle loaders. This means that there is no plan to tighten the law on antiques or relax the rules on replicas, pistols and long arms. I would be inclined to take that as a no win-no lose result. If they start looking at legislation again we may face even tighter rules, not a relaxation of them. People that I've talked to suggest letting sleeping dogs lie

 

[Keith]

That has the look of a Colt Navy Keith....

Yes mate, nice gun, but after several close escapes from wildlife I decided to upgrade my daily carry to a .357 magnum. I still kept the navy though
Keith.

 

[greenbear]

Yes mate, nice gun, but after several close escapes from wildlife I decided to upgrade my daily carry to a .357 magnum. I still kept the navy though
Keith.

It's certainly a handsome piece of kit Keith

 

[Keith]

It's certainly a handsome piece of kit Keith

I had no licence for them here in NSW, so I had to leave them in the Territory
Keith.

 

[Ystranc]

I had no licence for them here in NSW, so I had to leave them in the Territory
Keith.

We find that there are very different attitudes to firearms from different UK police forces. I am in Powys where they take a very reasonable attitude but in places like London, Birmingham, Nottingham and Liverpool they're much more draconian because their experiences of gun crime colour their judgment.
Is it the same between different parts of Australia? Are some authorities more relaxed or uptight then others?

 

[lonewolf]

BIL just got his FAC and he's in Hampshire but then he is ex forces mr business man!!!

 

[Ystranc]

Again, Hampshire is predominantly rural and the ex forces thing also helps. One of the questions on the licence application is about relevant experience.

 

[lonewolf]

he lives in Gosport,not sure where the gun club he uses is but it wont be far.

 

[Keith]

We find that there are very different attitudes to firearms from different UK police forces. I am in Powys where they take a very reasonable attitude but in places like London, Birmingham, Nottingham and Liverpool they're much more draconian because their experiences of gun crime colour their judgment.
Is it the same between different parts of Australia? Are some authorities more relaxed or uptight then others?

Here we have states, & each state has it's own gun laws. In Victoria I believe they are less strict on cap & ball revolvers though I am not sure exactly what the law says in that regard. In the Territory it used to be legal to carry a handgun out bush, not sure what the regs are now. In Queensland the farmers used to be able to carry handguns, but now that is changing. I think West Australia has the strictest laws, but here in NSW we can't be far behind! here should be a National firearms regulation covering all states.
Keith.