How light is lightweight ?

[Madriverrob]

In my endeavours to lighten my load I’m trying to rationalise the weight of some of my kit .

My current summer sleep set up comes in at 1885g with a one season bag and a sea to summit thermolight reactor extreme liner or 1450g if I use my alpkit SkyeHigh 500.

Breakdown as below

Tyvek ground sheet - 40g
Alpkit cloudbase sleeping mat -395g
Sea to summit reactor extreme - 399g
Sol escape Bivvy - 241g
Home made Bivvy plus 6 pegs -200g
One season sleeping bag -650g or
Alpkit SkyeHigh 500 bag -970g

What kind of weights do you guys have ?

 

[1 shot willie]

Hi Rob.

That is a nice organised setup mate.
The homemade bivi looks good..........see the weather and stars too.....bonus

What is your total weight thus far....in old money pounds and ounces

 

[Ark79]

Around 25 kg lol. But I pack heavy and don’t mind the load well at the moment I don’t lol. Av looked into light weight and I recon I could drop a few kg in time....possibly even dropping to the bear essentials....axe,knife,food,pot.

A really like your set up though I have to ask...the home made bivvy..would this not gathering a lot of condensation in the summer..much like a thermo stil ?

 

[Madriverrob]

Around 25 kg lol. But I pack heavy and don’t mind the load well at the moment I don’t lol. Av looked into light weight and I recon I could drop a few kg in time....possibly even dropping to the bear essentials....axe,knife,food,pot.

A really like your set up though I have to ask...the home made bivvy..would this not gathering a lot of condensation in the summer..much like a thermo stil ?

Good point Mark , I’ll have to feed back on that one , if it does at least I can go light on water

 

[Ark79]

Good point Mark , I’ll have to feed back on that one , if it does at least I can go light on water

Every cloud has a silver lining mate. It was just a thought bud hopefully it doesn’t

 

[Madriverrob]

We don’t get much sun up north , it shouldn’t be a problem

 

[Ark79]

We don’t get much sun up north , it shouldn’t be a problem

Never a truer saying mate

 

[lol]

Not getting much (sun!) anywhere !!!!

 

[Erbswurst]

Snugpack Special Forces 1 sleeping bag 1030g
in Snugpack Special Forces bivvy bag 340g
in Snugpack Drysack M 8 litres 60g
or on German Army folding mat 425g

Quilted jacket Decathlon Solognac 450g
in Osprey Dry sack 6 litres 30g

(because, if I can't find a stone as a pillow I sometimes use this.)

That works for me comfortably till 5*C, with some twigs under the mat and worn clothing of the day in the sleeping bag till 0*C.
Lower than this I have to digg out of my old brains how that bushcraft techniques had been, with fire during the night, lean to shelter for reflection, more twigs under me and heated stones in between, twigs and leaves over me, fat in the stomach, long log fire and so on.
-- Or I simply take the SF 2 sleeping bag and a second German mat. ;0)

I use to save the weight in other points.
In Winter times I run around with SF1 at 7kg, SF 2 at 8,5 kg, in summer times it is around 4,5 or 5 kg without food and water.
In very warm weather I also sometimes go with far less, nearly nothing.
Poncho, Plastic bottle, lighter, Swiss knife for example.

 

[Erbswurst]

Ah, I am to lazy this evening to translate it.

It's most times only another orthographie and the rest you can guess or ask the google translater.

It's the summer light weight equipment with some bricks for winter camping in between.

 

[Erbswurst]

And here a lightweight collection for beginners. One stop in one shop and go!

Of course there are lighter solutions for low budget and with lower weight like the Tomshoo mug with bail handle 750 ml titanium, Victorinox Compact, Defcon Poncho vegetato Italiano 400g
etc. But this list can give beginners an idea about, what is useful and what is available if you are on a budget.

 

[Erbswurst]

If you are shocked about the price, do not forget, that in this scenario you go naked in the shop an will come out completely equipped for a one year long tour all over Europe, following the good weather and trying to stay always in weather where you have minimum 0*C.

With the additional merino layers you would be able to camp outside till -5*C.
With bushcraft techniques you could even camp in colder weather.

The weight of the ruck sack includes equipment for cold weather, the list of worn clothing is summer clothing. If you start vor a week end in summer times you don't need all the clothing which are listed in the rucksack.

A lot of clothing you just have in your wardrobe! Of course you should use wat you have and see what you can get for free and second hand.

Normally you should only have to invest around half the money, that I listed, because normal people just own socks, shoes, t-shirts, a spoon or a pocket knife!

Just see , what you have, and count together, what is missing!

Bushcraft isn't an expensive hobby!

 

[Erbswurst]

And do not forget on the other side, that you can use the larger part of this equipment in your civil life in town.

The hiking boots are excellent winter boots, All clothing you can wear in town, because this is civil design. A student could use the kitchen equipment in his student apartment and even sleep there in the sleeping bag.

If you should prefere a minimalistic life stile, the equipment in this packing list would be nearly all you need.

 

[Madriverrob]

Now that's a comprehensive list ..............................

 

[Erbswurst]

The first list, written in German, contains what I personally use. It isn't the cheapest stuff I could find, but it is relatively inexpensive too. It is light but chosen for heavy duty use. And of course in summer times I put outside things like the stainless steel bottles and replace them with 30 g plastic bottles, let some warm clothing, the 9,5 cm fix blade knife, and the rain suit at home, because I always use a poncho tarp, and so on.
It is no problem to reduce that equipment to 4,5 kg base weight in the summer by just letting some winter equipment out.
(Some photos of this equipment I posted in the threat"lightweight" some times ago.

The second list contains material that I tested well in about 90% and asked some friends for the rest of informations about tested durability.

It shows that going light weight isn't really a question of money or extremely thin materials.
It's more a question of intelligent choice, a minimalistic packing list and an understanding that equipment with multi use character - like a poncho you can use as shelter or ground sheet - can save a lot of weight.

If you let in summer times from this Decathlon equipment list some warm clothing and the rain suit at home or in colder times you wear parts of the warmer clothing and the rain jacket on your person, you aren't far away from the "official ultra light border" of 4,5 kg rucksack base weight! But in this case you have more spark resistant equipment with you, that will last a long time.

And of course:
It's forest green, what I picked out (A)!

(The Equipment B for southern Europe tends more to sand coloured clothing)


So, let's see, which equipment other shops and outfitters are offering!

The ring is open!

Who knows the lightest durable forest green equipment, that is offered for a reasonable price?

Who comes here with the best packing list?

Who knows the best light weight tricks?

 

[Rathwulven BC]

Well I heard once that the "official" maximum mark for light-weight-backpacks is supposed to be 5kg.

Funnily enough at some point I stopped caring about counting grams and instead started planning in terms of usability of the items I carry. Which usually always brings me back Canterbury's 5 Cs: Cover, Container, Cordage, Combustion (tool), Cutting (tool).

As @Erbswurst said: Bushcraft does not have to be an expensive hobby, and one also does not need to be a "gearslut" (please note I am using that term as a joke, not an offence - given all the stuff in my attic I am a gearslut too )

Just found some old pictures here with a very rudimentary gear kit (pics are already a couple of years old). The kit contains a 1L stainless canteen, a Dutch military poncho, some cordage, a Victorinox, a Light My Fire Firesteel and - just for the convenience - a tiny pan and orange plate (can be used to mark the camp)

Find the camp:

I still use the Yugoslavian People's Army backpack featured in the pictures, usually for day trips. The 5 C's fit perfectly (the poncho can be mounted underneath in the bedroll-clips, so can a military blanket for example).

The pictures are taken in February btw. I tried doing some extreme winter overnighter without sleeping pad and sleeping bag - I learned that night that, even after sundown, I can row back home very, very fast.

 

[Erbswurst]

Well, in Europe the ultra light community is counting with 5 kg, in the USA they are counting with 4,5 kg.

In my opinion and personal feeling an important border is at 6 kilogram or with Water 7. That's why I use this equipment and recommend that Decathlon list.

(The next border would be around 12 or 13 kg. The next border would be around 16 or 17 kg. To carry more, I avoid if possible.)

By the way:
The recommended Decathlon padded waist is reversible: Outside forrest green, inside signal orange!

(If I couldn't manage to set up my camp early enough, in the evening I use the head lamp, to be seen while I am walking through hunting areas.)

Instead of your heavy (but surely very nice) plastic plate an orange nylon bag, that you can hang in a tree, containing some food, might be an intelligent idea.

Thank you for bringing me to this Idea!
I will take this in my repertoire!

May be, you saved my live, brother!

 

[Madriverrob]

Interesting points , I had pondered on what specific weight might be considered “lightweight” , well now I know it’s 5kg i’ll Be looking how I can achieve that .....

I like decathalon stuff and do use some on occasion.....,,,

 

[Erbswurst]

Yes, the Decathlon equipment is interesting, but have especially a look in my first list!
There are a few very interesting bits of equipment in!
But I will try to explain this things step by step later.

There is an international community that created in the last years a new sport, the "ultra light trekking".
They usually use incredible light and often weak and not very durable equipment, modern materials which sometimes are incredible expensive, they walk in trail runners, as light as jogging shoes, avoid redundancy and count with the good infrastructure around the well signed out international long distance hiking ways, they are running along, often 40 km or more, each day and continuous over weeks.

In summer times a lot of them use rucksacks that weight with a complete camping equipment inside between 3,5 and 4,5 kilogram "base weight" , what means spiritus for the stove, water, food, soap and so on are counting on top.
They usually do not take any thing out of the nature and follow "leave no trace" like a religion, what is necessary, because they all are following exactly the same ways, like cars on a highway.
So they suspend a tarp for example not between two trees, no they carry with them carbone fibre tarp poles and titanium pegs instead of using some sticks, lying on the ground.
This community counts with that border of 4,5 kg in USA, in Europe 5 kg.

I don't know if their tent construction would survive some stronger wind in the Scottish mountains, but where they usually are running through this equipment seemes to work.

I think it is intelligent to use the name "ultra light trekking" for this group and sport, and a properly packed classic hiking rucksack between 5 and 10 kilogram we should call " lightweight".

Of course, if we use a light bivvy bag and suspend our poncho at a tree, and carve our pegs with a very light opinel No 7 or a Victorinox Compact instead of carrying in good old tradition a Wiking axe around with us, we are able to reach in summer times with modern light, but durable equipment rucksack base weigts around 4,5 to 5kg too.
If I am cooking over open fire, what usually is no problem in Germany, when I think about, what I am doing, I can save the weight of the spiritus an ultra light trekker has to carry around. And so on.

But on the other side it is sensible to learn from the ultra light trekking community, because they got a lot of ideas and tried them out, that all together lighten the load gram by gram till theyr goal next to nothing.

I will try to give you in the following some examples where a bush crafter can save weight, when he leaves the very traditional way.

 

[Erbswurst]

This three bottles all have exactly the same capacity: 750 ml

German army canteen, aluminium 214 g
360 Degrees stainless steel bottle 220g
Innocent smoothie plastic bottle 36g

Did anybody of you ever managed to break a plastic bottle by accident?

Yes, in winter times I use the stainless steel bottle, because if ice would be in it, I easily could hang it over a fire. I use a thermos double wall stainless steel bottle too. That keeps my water liquid over the night without putting it into my sleeping bag, what other people prefere to heat it. It would disturb me.

but in summer time, I use 2x36g plastic bottles, together 72 g instead of the 220g 360 Degrees stainless steel bottle:
220g plus 363g Thermos bottle, together 583g!

I can save in summer times with this little trick 511g !!!

If I would use a 1,5 litre plastic bottle it even would become lighter, but the innocent 750 ml plastic bottles fit very well in the side pockets of my German mountain troop rucksack (775g).

That is the reason, why I use the 750 ml stainless steel bottle.
With the lighter plastic closure and without neoprene cover the 360 Degrees stainless steel bottle 750 ml weights 166g, the 1litre bottle weights 185g, so the additional capacity of 250 ml weights in the larger steel bottle as much as a plastic bottle of 250 ml!

It is intelligent to use large bottles because this helps to save weight!

Two 1 litre bottles from 360 Degrees weight together 370g and cost together 32 €.
Three titanium bottles from Vargo of 650 ml capacity have together only 1950 ml, but their weigt together is 390 g and they cost together 300 €.
That's an interesting addition too, inst it?

The clean canteen bottles are surely bomb proof, but they are heavier and more expensive than the bottles of 360 Degrees. I do not understand, why stainless steel bottles from clean canteen are in fashion.

And why people buy the heavy Nagelne bottles instead of using some ultra light , but durable plastic bottles for free from the super market is one of the largest miracles of our time.
They are nearly heavy and expensive like stainless steel and durable like an ultra light coke bottle from the supermarket!

Who can understand this?