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Keith

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Now for those of you who have not followed my blogs or read any of my articles, this may be a new concept. There are a lot of different tools/weapons you can use for hunting & defence. Without a doubt the best tool for defence would have to be the modern firearm, BUT, the modern firearm is not available to everyone for various reasons. I had modern guns in the UK because at that time there were no restrictions other than acquiring a shooters license. I used to hunt on farm land on a regular basis. I had a BSA .22 air rifle, which I still have, a .410 shotgun double, & a double 12 gauge. Both with external hammers. I also owned a .22 semi-auto handgun which I used to shoot at the pistol club.
For home defence shotguns are great. You can stock up on ammunition, & you can get a reloader & reload your own ammo. But for those who are going to have to leave home & survive in the countryside, carrying just a modern firearm can be restrictive. Good for defence yes, but the ammunition is heavy so you will be limited in how much you can carry. If you are a part of a family group, then perhaps you can carry more ammo distributed among you, but there are other priorities such as food, water, & medical supplies to say nothing of your regular gear such as shelter, bedding,cooking kettle etc.
So, you will need other hunting & defence tools. Traditional bows are good, do NOT get a compound bow. These require special strings & arrows & these can not be supplied from nature. Crossbow, slingshot,catapult,throwing sticks (rabbit stick), spears, tomahawk etc are all good for hunting IF you are skilled in their use, some of these are okay for defence too, but nothing will ever be as good as a firearm for defence. It is not just the power & accuracy, it is the implied threat from just the sight of this tool plus the shock from the sound it makes.
So here is an alternative that you may be able to acquire, a flintlock muzzle-loading gun, rifle & or pistol. Either in antique form or as a replica. These guns are used extensively in the UK in 18th century living history groups. These groups are a great way to learn how to survive. If you have one of these groups near you I urge you to join. They are family oriented, great fun to be a part of & you will learn many primitive survival skills. For anyone who is interested, you can find some groups listed here: http://eighteenthcenturylivinghistory.freeforums.org/worldwide-groups-forums-f40.html
Advantages of a Flintlock Muzzle-loader.

1) Ammo is less expensive than a modern equivalent caliber firearm.

2) The smoothbore is very versatile, being able to digest round ball, bird shot, & buckshot, or any combination of two of these (can also use minies).

3) The fusil is lighter to carry than a modern equivalent sized gun.

4) You can vary the load if needs be.

5) The smoothbore will digest other projectiles besides lead.

6) Lead can be retrieved from downed game & remoulded with a simple mould & lead ladle. This means that you can carry less lead, & more of the lighter gunpowder.

7) You can make your own gunpowder.

8) You can use the lock to make fire without the need for gunpowder.

9) You can use gunpowder for gunpowder tinder fire lighting if needs be.

10) IF the lock should malfunction (these are very robust & it is not likely) you can easily repair it if you are carrying a few spare springs & a few simple tools.

11) If you do not have any spare parts & the lock malfunctions, you can easily convert it to a tinderlock or matchlock & continue using it.

12) You do not need a reloader, brass shells, caps, or primers. The latter have been known to break down in damp conditions or if they are stored for too long.

13) Wadding for ball or shot is available from natural plant materials or homemade leather or rawhide.

14) Less chance of being affected by future ammunition control legislation.

15) Gunpowder is easily obtainable providing you have a muzzle-loader registered in your name regardless of caliber (only NSW is looking at this legislation at present).

16) A .32 caliber flintlock rifle is more powerful than a .22 rimfire, less expensive to feed, more accurate over a greater distance, able to take small & medium sized game, & other than not being able to use shot (unless it is smoothbore), it has all the attributes of the other flintlocks.

17) Damage from a .62 caliber-.75 caliber pistol or long arm is in the extreme. Wounded prey is unlikely to escape.

18) By using buck & ball you are unlikely to miss your target. This load is capable of taking out more than one target.

19) There is less kick-back to a muzzle-loading gun.

20) Antique Flintlock muzzle-loading guns do not require a license, registration, or a permit to purchase in NSW Australia.


 

Prime

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I totally respect your appreciation and active use for the flintlock Keith and I also agree that a Modern Shot gun provides the most rounded platform for hunting and defence available dependent upon loads used - the only downside I see for the shotgun ( and i;m speaking as an avid Practical Shotgun Shooter ) is that it an ammunition hungry platform ( and the ammunition is by comparison heavier and cumbersome ) and that the range , even with Slugs , can be the limiting factor.

But as a multi use tool it certainly takes a fair bit of beating.
 

Keith

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True, if you were bugging out, the amount of ammo you could reasonably be expected to carry without compromising other needed equipment would be low. But as a home defence tool I think it is pretty good. The .410 on the other hand is also pretty good & of course the ammo is much lighter. It too can shoot round ball. I think in the UK you would probably have more luck obtaining a shotgun than a .22 RF rifle.
Keith.
 

Prime

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The 22LR is indeed hard to beat in many fields. Its truly a giantkiller
 

Keith

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The 22LR is indeed hard to beat in many fields. Its truly a giantkiller
Not sure as I would class it as a giant killer Prime, a lucky shot can down a medium sized animal. Goats are fair game as are small game, but on wild boar & larger there is more chance of just wounding the game & losing it. I think in the UK you would be better off with a good .22 air rifle for hunting if not using a shotgun. A .22 for defence is okay for distance shooting within say 100 yards. Each gun has its limitations & benefits. I have a variety of guns to suit a variety of situations.
Keith.
 

Prime

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I think you will find that the 22lr has managed to drop all of the big Five ,
Quite the testimonial
 

Keith

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I think you will find that the 22lr has managed to drop all of the big Five ,
Quite the testimonial
Well if you say it has been done Prime, fair enough, I can only go by my own experience over many years. The Aboriginals here hunt with .22 LR & shotguns. Never have I known them to drop a buffalo without a long chase & a lot of shooting & even then many get away. I hunted professionally for a while up in the Territory, & I would never use less than my .45/70. I knew a Bushy who regularly hunted wild cattle with a .22, sometimes he was lucky, most often they got away wounded. He was almost killed by a bull once when it trampled him. Personally I think that anyone who tries to hunt big game with a .22 LR is cruel & irresponsible. Even a .22 magnum or Hornet would make more sense but still not a good choice in my opinion.
Keith.
 

Prime

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To clarify I'm not suggesting that the 22LR is the ideal round for taking larger animals , far from it only that more animals have been poached with the 22LR than any other and indeed i'm sure many of those have been lucky shots where the damage was maximised with accidental shot placement.

My point was weight-for-weight the 22LR is a nasty bugger of an underrated round capable of doing 'enough' damage , in a Post Event world I feel it would be a formidable item to be taken seriously.

I completely concur with your thoughts however that it is not responsible to ethically hunt with it on anything up from a small game. -But it has been used so and with a positive outcome although I doubt in all circumstances.
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
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we don't have the big game in the UK that you have in Oz or they have in the US, Keith, the largest animal we have is the Red Deer, most of the time use anything too powerful and the shot will go straight through and out the other side, for most small game here an air rifle would be more than sufficient, although in a post SHTF world where there will be lots to occupy our every waking hour I think snaring and trapping will be more time constructive.
 

Keith

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To clarify I'm not suggesting that the 22LR is the ideal round for taking larger animals , far from it only that more animals have been poached with the 22LR than any other and indeed i'm sure many of those have been lucky shots where the damage was maximised with accidental shot placement.

My point was weight-for-weight the 22LR is a nasty bugger of an underrated round capable of doing 'enough' damage , in a Post Event world I feel it would be a formidable item to be taken seriously.

I completely concur with your thoughts however that it is not responsible to ethically hunt with it on anything up from a small game. -But it has been used so and with a positive outcome although I doubt in all circumstances.
Fair enough Prime, agreed. I do like the .22 LR, I have a BRNO Model 2 which was the first gun I purchased in Australia. It has had a hard time in all these years, but still performs well. It was under water for a while when I crossed the De Gray River heading North all those years ago, it kept me protected & fed (although I did get swept down river & came very close to drowning!).
Keith.
KH_guns_images_017.jpg
 

Koda

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I struggle with the idea of anything other than a shotgun for defence in the UK in a shtf scenario, the level of ignorance in the UK with regards to firearms is widespread so if faced with an AR15 or AK style firearm the chances are some may think it's Airsoft & call your bluff, bad times! A shotgun would command instant respect as they are common place by comparison. Thoughts?
 

Cheapshots

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If you want a rifle with post SHTF self defence capabilities as a secondary function getting one with detachable magazine would be useful then train yourself in rapid fire accuracy.
 

Cheapshots

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410
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I'm not rapid but up to 150meters I can choose which eye to shoot a bunny in.....not exactly sniper standard but useful for hunting small game.
For combat rapid fire accuracy is important. If you ever go target shooting and have some ammo to burn try a few mad minute style exercises.
 

38thfoot

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The mad minute was with the Enfield bolt which was designed for rapid fire, some said at the cost of strength. Most modern sporting rifles in centre fire calibres use, I believe, a Mauser or modified Mauser action which is theoretically stronger but slower to work.

Suppressive fire should not be about volume but about effect, individual shots aimed well can be more effective than lots of random lead.

38
 
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The CZ that I use definitely wasn't designed as a rapid fire weapon, the standard detachable 5 or 10 round magazines won't really cut it.
I accept its limitations and make the most of its good points...for example, it weighs less then my air rifle and is pretty much bombproof with most of the mechanism and safety housed within the bolt. Easier to drop the bolt out and back in then the Mauser bolt because it's less fiddly.
 

60North

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I own an old Brno mod 2, (.22lr) and have a few 10 round mags for it. I use it for small game, but on occasion I set up targets and let fly a few hundred rounds.
Most of the time it is one careful shot after another, but sometimes I practice rapid fire just so I get the idea of how accurate it would be.
Its not really well suited for it as trying to rapid fire a bolt action with a telescopic sight leads to very inaccurate rounds. I would probably do better taking the scope off if I ever felt (in a shtf situation) it was needed for combat.
 

Cheapshots

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The mad minute was with the Enfield bolt which was designed for rapid fire, some said at the cost of strength. Most modern sporting rifles in centre fire calibres use, I believe, a Mauser or modified Mauser action which is theoretically stronger but slower to work.

Suppressive fire should not be about volume but about effect, individual shots aimed well can be more effective than lots of random lead.

38
We didn't move away from the enfield style in our bolt actions because it was inherently less useful for combat than the slower style of fire of the Mauser but because bolt actions are now no longer the standard infantry weapon. They are made for snipers, hunters and sport shooters, in those categories single shot accuracy is generally superior. When fighting at max distances and fighting in a cover rich environment single shot accuracy is better both in a suppressive and destructive capacity. But you can achieve both good marksmanship and a good rate of fire with a bolt action and training. History proved that in a defensive engagement the British style combination of a good rate of fire and good marksmanship was devastating against an advancing force, especially on caught in the open and that combination does have a strong demoralising effect. Rapid fire accuracy is also useful in an ambush scenario, either if you're trying to escape from one or if you're the ambusher.
 

38thfoot

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My point was that most bolt action centre fire calibre rifles are likely to be Mauser or modified Mauser actions. The issue of Enfield strength was theorietical based on the way it locked ( which itself was deliberate to aid speed).

38
 
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