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Knife law, plain and simple

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Found this on another forum Well written and clear, thought it may be appreciated here?
Just in case?


knife-2014982_1920-1200x496.jpg




We as bushcrafters do love a nice new “shiny”, and in a similar way to our colonial cousins with there attractions to firearms, we want to be able to carry it all the time. However, and this is a big one, the chances are you are breaking the law in doing so.

Many people will say that they can carry a knife under 3 inch in length, a lock knife, or a saw or fixed bladed knife.
If you look at the section in law which knives fall under, it spells it out in clear terms, and I’m not talking about the plethora of opinions from the bloke down the pub, I am referring to the law.
The law contained in Section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, provides the offence of possession of a bladed or pointed article in a public place. To understand the law, you need to be able to understand how it has been written, and which each part means.
Let’s start with “Possession”, this is quite simple, so if it upon your person, a bag you’re carrying, or vehicle you’re travelling in, you are in possession of it. If it’s locked in a box in the boot of your car, you are still in possession of it.
spoon carved with knife

Now let’s look at the “Public Place”.
This isn’t quite as straight forward as you would think, the definition for Section 139 is as follows “public place includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise”.
Your local park would fall under this, as would Tesco’s when it’s open; however, land which is normally private such as the location of the Bushmoot’s, would fall into the category of being a public place when there is an event taking place.
The reason for this comes under the part which states “permitted access”, as you are only allowed to enter the site if you have paid to come along, or if it was free to enter you are again only allowed to be there as you are attending the event.
Glastonbury festival is held on private farmland, however people buy a ticket and are permitted access, this then makes it a public place.
We have now established if you are in ‘possession’ and in a public place, what does it mean by a bladed or pointed article. This is the simple bit, does it have a sharp blade, or a point, if the answer is yes, then you guessed it, it is a knife.
Now there is an exception to this rule, in which the law recognises that a folding pocket knife does not fall into the offence, but other knives do.
So that is the offence bit covered, now the question is, what knives come under this section of law? To put it bluntly (no pun intended) everything except a folding pocket knife.
A folding pocket knife is a knife which folds out and back in again with no locking mechanism, and a holding spring to keep it in a closed position, it must also have a blade length not exceeding 7.62cm (3inch). The easiest example of this would be a traditional Swiss Army knife.
opened Swiss Army Knife

The law was written for all other knives, such as lock knives, or ones with a fixed blade.
Most if not all bushcrafty people use one of these knives, and we all need to know that the law affects us.
To give an example of this type of knife, you could look at a simple Opinel No.8 knife. This knife folds open, and then with a twist of the metal ring, it is locked in the open position. By definition, this is a lock knife, and therefore it is an offence to have it in a public place. This offence would also apply if you have your fixed bladed knife on your belt.
Opinel knife cutting sausage

Right so now that we are in public with a knife which falls under the definition of the offence, are we going to be taken to court and dealt with?
Well, this next bit falls to the person, when you’re in the woods actively involved in some well-earned Bushcraft time, you have a good reason to have your fixed or locking bladed knife with you. However, when the inevitable time comes that you’ve run out of bacon, it’s time for a trip to the shops. You either leave the sharps in camp, or if this isn’t an option you put them in the car or your bag.
This is where all the confusion usually comes for people, so to clear this up. The offence is complete if the knife is “in your possession”. So if the police stop you and they locate the knife you may find yourself in court, and you may have a perfectly good reason to have the knife upon you, however proving this falls to you.
The offence has been committed, and all that the courts need to prove is the charge.
The full wording for this is as follows…
“On (specific date) at (township) had with you, without good reason or lawful authority, in a public place (specific location): (A) an article which had a blade or was sharply pointed, namely (specific article)”: (B) a folding pocket knife which had a blade the cutting edge of which exceeded 7.62cm.”
The bit which is left to the accused to prove is the “without good reason or lawful authority”, so if you are engaged in some bushcraft activity, you could say that you have a good reason. Buying bacon at the shops is not a good reason. The lawful authority could well be the postman bringing you a new shinny, due to this the only real option for us would be the good reason bit.
So to sum up, if you have anything other than a Swiss Army type knife (non-locking, sub 3″ blade), you need to a have a good reason to have it with you.
 
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That simplified it :thumbsup: nice one... if Bushcraft falls under good reason (don’t know if it does) then having possession of it while your going to your destination and returning from should fall under good reason also.

I will say.... carrying any knife with you then you do it at your own risk.
 
Another article here offering advice and also well written....... as above.

On a personal note I have stopped carrying a fixed blade knife with me for bushcraft wild camping and hunting use.....I just do not need one.
All I carry now is a twin blade non locking pocket knife or SAK.........always.
A "Silky saw in sheath".......or a folding "Silky" in sheath........occasionally.
A "Wildlife Hatchet" that will do most jobs a knife will do (apart from carving maybe)..... and more......including preparing game if necessary...........only on long stay camps and stays in the pack/bag until I reach camp.....or travel back home.

Being in a position where I spend a lot of time in woodlands/ on farmland with permission........I would like to think I have "good reason"to carry and be in possession of.

Each to their own though :thumbsup:









UK Knife Law Explained for the Outdoors
UK legal carry law discussed with a former police officer
What can I carry in the UK? Is my knife illegal? What knife can I carry for bushcraft?
The above is a good example of questions we’re asked with regards to knives, axes and what we can carry for working in the outdoors in the U.K.
We of course discuss all of this on our bushcraft courses, but sometimes it’s easier to listen to a discussion than a lecture. For that reason I got one of our instructors, Kevin Field, to talk through his understanding of the current UK knife laws and how they might affect a bushcrafter or other outdoor enthusiast or professional.
Kevin was formerly a police officer, and I am an experienced outdoor instructor – but neither of us is a solicitor and we cannot give formal legal advice. The content in the video is our best understanding and interpretation of the current laws, but it is down to each one of you to do your own research and make sure that what you have in your pocket or bag is legal for your situation.
UK Knife Law Key Points:
  • The legal length for a non-locking, folding blade is 3inches/7.62cm
  • A knife with legal length can still be deemed an offensive weapon if it can perceived as such by someone else
  • Locking folding knives, fixed blade knives and knives longer than 3inches/7.62cm are all illegal for carry in a public place without a further defence
  • It is the duty of the person carrying the knife to know and understand the law – ignorance is not a defence
  • Access land and public footpaths are also public places
  • More information can be found on the gov.uk website
So what can I carry?
Well, the broadest answer is a folding blade, without a locking mechanism of no more than 3inches/7.62cm. That leaves you with something like the Victorinox Swiss Army Knife – however, even though it is not illegal necessarily to carry this as a knife, you could still be accused of carrying an offensive weapon.
The actual wording is:
“It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches.” [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]
There are specific defenses listed for the carry of knives outside of the definition above – including use for work, for religious reasons or as part of a national costume. The crucial part here is “without lawful authority or good reason”. What constitutes a ‘good reason’ is very subjective, and can depend on everything from how you act and behave with that item in public to how a member of the public perceives it. It is also not limited to knives, but hatchets, folding saws, ice axes and other sharp/bladed articles that an outdoor enthusiast may use.
Whilst it is impossible to give cast-iron guarantees and advice on what knife or other item you may carry, and how you can carry it, there are some generic situations where it is common for knives to be carried in public space:
  • A small, folding locknife with a serrated blade on the harness of a climber or the PFD of a canoe/kayaker for the purpose of cutting through rope, webbing or line in an emergency
  • A fixed-blade bushcraft knife being used by somebody camping on land where they have legal permission to do so, and ensuring it is being used safely and responsibly
  • A multitool with a locking blade in the toolkit of a mountainbiker at a trail center
  • A long filleting knife in the tacklebox of an angler on a pier where the public has access
All of those are fairly common scenarios, and there is a very good chance that a police officer, the Crown Prosecution Service and potentially a judge agreeing that it is a ‘good reason’ for that item to be carried or used in public, in that way, at that time.
But what if that climber still has that knife in their pocket when they sit down to a bowl of goulash in the Siabod Cafe later that day? Or if that bushcrafter forgets they have a knife on their belt when they pop into Tesco on the way home? Could the mountainbiker get into an argument with a stranger whilst adjusting their derailleur and threaten the stranger with the knife on the multitool? Can the angler drop into the pub when walking back home, dropping their tacklebox under the table?
The short answer to all of the above is that they are much more likely to have committed an offence. By making poor decisions, not paying attention to how they are handling the potentially illegal item in their kit and being complacent or just foolish they have moved outside of their (potential) legal defence.
One also needs to consider if they are trespassing, which in itself is a civil matter not a criminal one – but if you are found to be in possession of an offensive weapon then it can possibly become armed trespass.
There are so many variables that it possible to turn any hypothetical scenario into a situation where a law has been broken.
Seriously, what can I carry?
The best advice I can give – as an instructor and somebody who was once the victim of knife crime – is to make sure that the knife, axe, saw or whatever you are carrying is:
  • appropriate to the activity you are conducting, or about to/have been conducting and there is no other practical way to transport that item
  • not being used or carried in a manner which can cause distress or alarm to a member of the public
  • not likely to be accidentally carried on from your place of lawful use and activity to a public place (on the belt of your trousers etc)
  • not an item otherwise prohibited from being carried or owned (including flick knives, butterfly knives etc)
  • transported and stored in a way that cannot be misconstrued as being a weapon (i.e. in a rucksack in the boot of a vehicle, not in the cupholder next to you)
You also need to ask yourself if you REALLY do need to carry that item. Is there a ‘good reason’ for carrying a machete-like survival tool on the PYG Track of Snowdon? Do you need to have a £500 craftsperson-made bushcraft knife on your belt at the local game fair? Do you actually need a knife to go foraging, or will a pair of scissors or secateurs be more appropriate? There is a world of outdoor media, from Instagram to old episodes of Ray Mears shows on Youtube that may trick the unwary into thinking that anything is allowed because you’re being ‘outdoorsy’…
So please, make sure that if you are carrying a knife or bladed item in the U.K., no matter what the style or length, that you are aware of the rules and laws around the use and carry of those items. More importantly, you should also be aware of how your behaviour and actions could be seen by another person. You know that you are a safe, responsible person who is a student of wilderness skills and want to try out your new knife and axe – but has the person walking their dog just seen a threatening-looking scruffy person heading into the woods with camouflage gear and a Rambo-knife?
 
I think the article above hits the nail on the head in regards to displaying stuff, it just draws attention to yourself if you chose to (for example) carry a sheath knife on your belt because you think you can get away with it. I often take my kukri away wild camping with me, its a great tool, I can cut and lift turf, wood obviously and over the years I've used it for a hundred different things. I wouldn't dream of carrying it on my belt or even on the outside of a bag, its just going to draw attention. I generally have a Mora in my bag even if I'm going hill walking and doubt I'll need it but its still there, tucked away discreetly. I feel I could justify why I have these tools in the unlikely event that it became an issue but the only time they'd be out would be if they were being used so I could demonstrate why I had them.

I think a lot of boys just like to be seen carrying a knife almost as an 'image' thing, you bring it on yourself if that's the case.
 
Reading all them is making me think over a few things lol rightly so.... great information. It’s looking like a new knife for me:whistle: a smaller one this time:D
 
Bams letter intrigued me, and he's right , there is a definite macho element in some of this stuff.
However, as a child or youth I often , as did most, carried a sheath knife, obviously on the belt, and no one thought twice of it. I was born and raised in Africa, but even over here, I would often be out and about with my sheath knife.
In my farming career, years ago, I always had an Opinel No 8 in my boiler suit, and there's one in my "man bag" now. Except there's not......….
 
I hear ya Lol, most of us as kids had knives, not to 'stab each other up' but for practical things. Nobody batted an eyelid, it was boys being boys but that's not the way society rolls now so we have to go with the socials mores. If I see a guy with a small SAK pouch on a belt it stands out, I just think that it's just as easy in a pocket as on your belt and that's a legal carry item. I'm maybe over thinking it but it just looks like they are wanting people to see them as 'outdoorsy' or whatever.

Each to their own and all that of course.
 
I hear ya Lol, most of us as kids had knives, not to 'stab each other up' but for practical things. Nobody batted an eyelid, it was boys being boys but that's not the way society rolls now so we have to go with the socials mores. If I see a guy with a small SAK pouch on a belt it stands out, I just think that it's just as easy in a pocket as on your belt and that's a legal carry item. I'm maybe over thinking it but it just looks like they are wanting people to see them as 'outdoorsy' or whatever.

Each to their own and all that of course.

No, I think you're spot on...……...:thumbsup:
 
You boys need to get my missus telt, according to her I'm never right. :lol:
 
"Telt"? o_O

I reckon yours and mine must have gone to the same school!!!:rofl: (Or we did....and were hopelessly taught in all things!! 👍 :rofl:)
 
Good article :)

If you carry a knife you'll look for a reason to use it, if you don't carry a knife you won't miss it in reality. Even around camp an Opinel does all I need, that and a Laplander and can opener. I like knives, great tools and some show great craftsmanship but in reality you don't need them as much as you may think you do IMHO.
 
A while back I made myself a full leather belt kit.
To include.... Sheath knife.... Possibles pouch...... Axe loop..... SAK pouch.... And a saw pouch + the belt of course.

To be honest it spent most of the time hanging from a tree or in the tent/shelter.
Pain in the arse when trying to sit in a chair as you can imagine..... Thought it was a good idea at the time though..... This was before we needed to think more about what we carry and how/where we carry it.
 
Good article :)

If you carry a knife you'll look for a reason to use it, if you don't carry a knife you won't miss it in reality. Even around camp an Opinel does all I need, that and a Laplander and can opener. I like knives, great tools and some show great craftsmanship but in reality you don't need them as much as you may think you do IMHO.
I totally agree Harry but as has already been stated us old boys have probably carried a folding knife all our lives. I could be classed as carrying an offensive weapon because of my little No6 but in reality I could probably do more damage with a ball point pen but as it stands carrying a pe is not an offense
 
I totally agree Harry but as has already been stated us old boys have probably carried a folding knife all our lives. I could be classed as carrying an offensive weapon because of my little No6 but in reality I could probably do more damage with a ball point pen but as it stands carrying a pe is not an offense

Stick with a SAK and you're fine Joe. The good thing about SAK's is that people know them, they're not very intimidating and best of all, they're legal carry.
 
I totally agree Harry but as has already been stated us old boys have probably carried a folding knife all our lives. I could be classed as carrying an offensive weapon because of my little No6 but in reality I could probably do more damage with a ball point pen but as it stands carrying a pe is not an offense

John Wick killed six people with a pen ;)

I do have one of these as an EDC on my keyring, I keep some encrypted files on the USB drive, the blade is 1.5" long.
 
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