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Knifes and other edged tools

I did actually think of being plod one day and did law at college , albeit for only one year, also did interview for being a special 10 years back, decided against it don't trust the UK Police no more, and i believe this knife would be an offence of "carrying a bladed article in a public place"
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The blade itself is only 1.5 inches but that little spring clip on the pencil tip locks it into place, it is not the knife that is the problem its the person holding it.

As for the Police well don't start me off topic but if you were to look into the increase of public order offences we can see why respect for them has gone.

sorry for off topic but worth a read

www.nytimes.com

DNA Evidence Can Be Fabricated, Scientists Show (Published 2009)

With fabricated blood or saliva, “you can just engineer a crime scene,” said the lead author of a new study.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

And in the event of dealing with the UK police keep keep this in mind

 
I wasn't suggesting any actual dishonesty on the part of the police, more an over enthusiasm in getting results in an environment that is hostile to knife ownership. The country as a whole has become so rabidly anti knife crime that the police's own guidance to its officers to apply common sense and see things in context may have been ignored in some cases.
If a knife is used as a tool and can be shown (on the balance of probability) to be necessary for some legitimate task it should be legal to be in possession of it, however it is up to the individual officers discretion. The officer on the spot can either be reasonable or ridiculously obtuse and there really isn't much you can do about it.
Having approached my police force for clarification of whether it is legal for me to carry a fixed blade to and from my permissions they were unwilling to commit to putting anything in writing. 😶 For now I'll be leaving my fixed blade at home.
 
Some interesting figures here,

www.bbc.co.uk

Ten charts on the rise of knife crime in England and Wales

Knife offences remain a major subject of public interest. But what are the facts?
www.bbc.co.uk
There have been various knife amnesties , in 2016 they even welded knives together to make a angel statue ,
Knife Angel made out of 100,000 weapons but I wonder just how much effect such actions actually have . When viewed alongside the first link one could very easily conclude at best none and possibly even worse.
 
As has been said in other posts, it isn't really the knives that are the cause of the problem, it's the people who are misusing them for criminal purposes. I've just fettled my folding German army penknife so it's fit for paunching bunnies instead of taking the fixed blade.
Ridiculous that I can legally carry a rifle to my permissions but could be prosecuted for carrying a fixed blade if the officer chose to pursue the matter.
 
Ystranc said:
As has been said in other posts, it isn't really the knives that are the cause of the problem, it's the people who are misusing them for criminal purposes. I've just fettled my folding German army penknife so it's fit for paunching bunnies instead of taking the fixed blade.
Ridiculous that I can legally carry a rifle to my permissions but could be prosecuted for carrying a fixed blade if the officer chose to pursue the matter.
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The vagiaries of the law, I honestly believe that what we can get away with in a country persiut would be unacceptable in a large city enviroment
 
Joecole said:
The vagiaries of the law, I honestly believe that what we can get away with in a country persiut would be unacceptable in a large city enviroment
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The problem there is that the 12 good men and true that sit in judgment on us simple country folk are statistically most likely going to be drawn from city dwellers doing jury duty. They will bring all their ideas and preconceptions with them as they enter the courtroom.
I'm only half joking when I say this, there is a large gulf between the way city and country people react to things. A definite mutual lack of understanding and trust.
 
Noticed this personally.. moving from a country side area to a city then back to the country....different tolerances from the police and general people.
Much prefer the country tolerance to be honest.

Am not sure I will stop carrying my knifes and axe to places. I am however thinking of wrapping the knife up better before placing it in my bag.

We could turn Bushcraft into a religion? Would solve the carrying part:D
 
From what I've read read the examples of acceptable reasons to carry a knife were fishing, taking the knife to or from a gallery or museum for display, teaching or attending a scout meeting.
Maybe you just need to carry a stowaway fishing rod where ever you go or become a scoutmaster...
 
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What I don't get is that the UK has some of the strictest laws when it comes to any type of weapon be it knives, guns , whatever yet we still have a bigger problem then most other EU countries, the stabbings in London a prime example, here in France you could buy a taser if you over 18 with no license and be perfectly legally owned. I do read and watch some French news and the riots aside i don't hear of stabbings and gang related violence. and like the USA all French police are armed
yet no gun culture here

Taser / Electric Shocker | Defense Weapon

Large choice of shockers for home defense: electric batons, taser lamps... Legal firearms for adults over the counter. Fast delivery !
www.fusil-calais.com www.fusil-calais.com

But I read in a newspaper in Kent where some chap bought one offline and was sent to prison

www.kentonline.co.uk

Taser 'joke' leads to jail

A student caught using an illegal weapon he bought for £10 on the internet has been locked up.
www.kentonline.co.uk www.kentonline.co.uk

Is it because as these items are illegal does it make them more appealing to the people carrying? does it make them feel more "Gangsta!!"
 
Medwayman said:
What I don't get is that the UK has some of the strictest laws when it comes to any type of weapon be it knives, guns , whatever yet we still have a bigger problem then most other EU countries, the stabbings in London a prime example, here in France you could buy a taser if you over 18 with no license and be perfectly legally owned. I do read and watch some French news and the riots aside i don't hear of stabbings and gang related violence. and like the USA all French police are armed
yet no gun culture here

Taser / Electric Shocker | Defense Weapon

Large choice of shockers for home defense: electric batons, taser lamps... Legal firearms for adults over the counter. Fast delivery !
www.fusil-calais.com www.fusil-calais.com

But I read in a newspaper in Kent where some chap bought one offline and was sent to prison

www.kentonline.co.uk

Taser 'joke' leads to jail

A student caught using an illegal weapon he bought for £10 on the internet has been locked up.
www.kentonline.co.uk www.kentonline.co.uk

Is it because as these items are illegal does it make them more appealing to the people carrying? does it make them feel more "Gangsta!!"
Click to expand...
A stun gun or tazor has no purpose other than use as a weapon (he carried it and displayed it in a public place, maybe he's just young and unwise).
If you were to carry a Japanese sword around a city centre at night you would have to expect a similar reaction (as they both fall into the cattagory of being a'banned weapon' along with zombie knives under the 2018 amendments to the offensive weapons act.) but a knife is a versatile tool as well as being a potential weapon, being in possession of one must be looked at in context and on an individual basis. Legislation that relies on the public, police and courts using common sense must be seen as poorly thought out, common sense being remarkably uncommon these days.
 
Medwayman, you may well be right when you describe being armed with a knife as being one of the trappings of being 'gangsta'...unfortunately the legislation put in place to combat criminals had the effect of potentially criminalising another section of society that have a legitimate use for fixed blades. The law is a blunt instrument in this case...... 🤔 Ironic really....
 
Still it’s not transparent what consists as an actual reason? It has been placed in the hands of officials!

Carrying a knife in public = crime so it became criminal to carry a knife without good reason?
Rights have turned into privileges.

It’s unfair to put my fate in the hands of a stranger all be it there doing there job. I have no say in what is good reason or a legitimate claim to my freedom to do as I will without cause of harm to others.
I was born shackled and told I was free. I was raised free with rights and educated for life. I have land in which I do not own. Freedom is a thought and nothing more! Rant over :D

Rather bleak lol
 
Up until 1919 you could walk into a shop and buy a gun of any description over the counter without even an ID check, that would seem insane to most people in this country these days yet it was a freedom granted to any person who could afford to buy a gun.
I'm not totally sure that I'm all for absolute freedom...absolute freedom is too scary to contemplate but our existing rights need to be guarded and watched over in case they slip stealthily away.
 
Ystranc said:
Up until 1919 you could walk into a shop and buy a gun of any description over the counter without even an ID check, that would seem insane to most people in this country these days yet it was a freedom granted to any person who could afford to buy a gun.
I'm not totally sure that I'm all for absolute freedom...absolute freedom is too scary to contemplate but our existing rights need to be guarded and watched over in case they slip stealthily away.
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I would agree with that.....
 
Woodlander said:
Don't get me started! Two knives confiscated and destroyed, two cautions.
Both within legal limits, both times I was on the way back from camping. It's gotten silly. Some kind of registration process is needed.
Along the lines of name, address, description of tools carried and reason. Photo license type thing that you can show plod. But it should be low cost and not so stupidly regulated that it restricts. It's like I can't get a firearms licence because of the medication I am on. I don't suffer from depression, but it's used for a different purpose but because I'm on it, I'm not even considerable material for firearms. When they regulate something only certain people can get in, when they don't regulate it's chaos! You can't win. No happy medium
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If the knives were indeed non-locking and under 3 inches, and if there was no evidence to suggest that you had or intended to use them as an offensive weapon, then you were commiting no crime and the police had no grounds whatsoever to confiscate, let alone issue a caution. You would do well to lodge an official complaint and appeal. And in future, never, ever accept a police caution for anything (and do not be coerced into thinking you have no choice but to accept one), remember that accepting a caution is effectively an admission of guilt, it might seem like a get out of jail free card, but it's not, you are ultimately screwing yourself over. Your best course of action whenever you are detained or arrested by the police is to say nothing, and immediately get a lawyer.

Personally, I am not in favour of any licencing system when it comes to bladed tools. I think the laws are fine as they stand, there just needs to be a little more balance and common sense applied to their enforcement. That could be achieved very easily just by changes to police and CPS guidance, i.e greater leniency should be applied where it is obvious that a knife or bladed tool in public is not being used for an unlawful purpose, we should all pressure our MPs to make these changes and educate them about those of us in society who frequently carry and use such tools lawfully. We must also assert our rights, don't allow police officers with overzealous interpretations of the laws run roughshod over us.

Also, we need to change the wider public's attitude towards knives, and that's a much more difficult task. The media has bombarded people for several years with sensationalist, disproportionate, scare stories about "knife crime", and as such the mindset in many people seems to be, knife = violence, crime, murder etc. Ultimately again it will come down to education. People need to be shown that not everybody who own and use knives outside of a kitchen context are violent criminals, infact the overwhelming majority are not. Get more bushcrafters and outdoorsmen on TV using knives lawfully. Get more kids into outdoor pursuits where they can be taught to use knives responsibly for their intended purposes, dispell the 'mystique' and the notion that their only function is to cause harm.
 
Albion said:
If the knives were indeed non-locking and under 3 inches, and if there was no evidence to suggest that you had or intended to use them as an offensive weapon, then you were commiting no crime and the police had no grounds whatsoever to confiscate, let alone issue a caution. You would do well to lodge an official complaint and appeal. And in future, never, ever accept a police caution for anything (and do not be coerced into thinking you have no choice but to accept one), remember that accepting a caution is effectively an admission of guilt, it might seem like a get out of jail free card, but it's not, you are ultimately screwing yourself over. Your best course of action whenever you are detained or arrested by the police is to say nothing, and immediately get a lawyer.

Personally, I am not in favour of any licencing system when it comes to bladed tools. I think the laws are fine as they stand, there just needs to be a little more balance and common sense applied to their enforcement. That could be achieved very easily just by changes to police and CPS guidance, i.e greater leniency should be applied where it is obvious that a knife or bladed tool in public is not being used for an unlawful purpose, we should all pressure our MPs to make these changes and educate them about those of us in society who frequently carry and use such tools lawfully. We must also assert our rights, don't allow police officers with overzealous interpretations of the laws run roughshod over us.

Also, we need to change the wider public's attitude towards knives, and that's a much more difficult task. The media has bombarded people for several years with sensationalist, disproportionate, scare stories about "knife crime", and as such the mindset in many people seems to be, knife = violence, crime, murder etc. Ultimately again it will come down to education. People need to be shown that not everybody who own and use knives outside of a kitchen context are violent criminals, infact the overwhelming majority are not. Get more bushcrafters and outdoorsmen on TV using knives lawfully. Get more kids into outdoor pursuits where they can be taught to use knives responsibly for their intended purposes, dispell the 'mystique' and the notion that their only function is to cause harm.
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The scouting movement used to fulfill that task but these days knives are not encouraged. 😕
members.scouts.org.uk

Scouts

We prepare young people with skills for life. Each year we help over 460,000 girls and boys enjoy fun and adventure while developing skills to succeed. Do more. Learn more. Be more.
members.scouts.org.uk members.scouts.org.uk
 
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Ystranc said:
The scouting movement used to fulfill that task but these days knives are not encouraged. 😕
members.scouts.org.uk

Scouts

We prepare young people with skills for life. Each year we help over 460,000 girls and boys enjoy fun and adventure while developing skills to succeed. Do more. Learn more. Be more.
members.scouts.org.uk members.scouts.org.uk
Click to expand...

"Knives should be considered as a tool and treated as such. Those who are going to use them should get training for their use, as you would for a saw or an axe. Knives are an offensive weapon so great care should be taken when dealing with them. When undertaking training at the Scout HQ, knives should be taken to and from Scouts by an adult. When taking a knife to camp, they should be securely stowed in the middle of the rucksack or bag. "

This is false. A knife (excluding actual, purposely built weapons, daggers, swords etc) is no more an offensive weapon than a pencil. Both can become an offensive weapon in the eyes of the law if they are (mis)used as such, but in and of themselves they are not. To just blithely state that "knives are offensive weapons" is highy misleading and more dangerously serves to reinforce an association in kids minds that knives = violence. Very irresponsible.

vv This on the other hand I believe is the way forward. Massive respect for this teacher. "The most dangerous thing you can do to a child is not expose them to an element of risk and danger"

 
I attempted to get clay pigeon shooting adopted as a school sport 35 years ago and was treated like some sort of terrorist.
I have seen footage of that head teacher before, he balances field craft with respect for wildlife really well. Hopefully those kids will grow up with a greater understanding of the countryside then they would otherwise have done.
 
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