Last of my pressies .......

[Madriverrob]

 

[Bopdude]

Nice, I'll wager it won't look so purdy for much longer

 

[Madriverrob]

Hmm was thinking that ! Gonna fire it up tomorrow for a play

 

[Ark79]

Spot on

 

[Erbswurst]

Did you buy it with the wire clips?

And if, who sold it?

 

[Madriverrob]

Yes with wire clips as advised ....
From the Bushcraft Store .....

The Bushcraft Store

The Bushcraft Store - Leading supplier of Bushcraft & Survival Knives, fire lighting, Clothing & Equipment, Axes, parcord, hammocks, shelters, water purification kit

www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk

 

[Erbswurst]

Did you see???

They sell the 750ml titanium Toaks / Tomshoo mug too! But it's another brand!

And they have a stainless steel version of it.

Slowly people understand what I am preaching!

;0)

 

[38thfoot]

To be honest most of what they sell is a TBS branded version of already available products; all made easier by the fact the same Chinese factories are churning out multiple versions of the same products.

The Tomshoo /toaks billies are almost certainly products of the same rebranding process with new Chinese companies set up to sell a copy of the designs being made.

It’s one of the reasons that kit companies constantly seek innovation as they know if they try and sell the same products indefinitely then the tomshoos of this world selling via amazon/eBay will undercut them on price.

38

 

[Erbswurst]

Yes, that's probably a problem.
But I think, if something is really made good, we should pay respect to their work.
I have the impression, that somebody from America or Europe developed that thing and organised the chinese production because the material is there and off course the production is cheaper.

I looked later a bit around at the side and have seen, that TBS itself calls it a Toaks product.
I simply didn't know, that it exists in stainless steel too.

In my impression this perfectly constructed and produced pots are the result of an international partnership, like the guy I know who makes the Tschum tents looked for a chinese partner for his lightweight versions SilHexpeak V4a.

That silnylon tents aren't stolen from him, no, that is a result of a really well working partnership.
The german designer can't sell a relatively expensive and heavy german custom made high quality cotton tent to everybody who wants to go out camping in the summer. And on top of it he doesn't like sewing silnylon himself and hasn't the money to found a bigger manufacture.
So he makes both: Sewing in Germany himself and cooperating with China.

The only problem I see is that most designers stopped thinking about how to make things in Europe.
As I see, European outdoor products can be sold, and if I compare the qualities, they aren't expensive in my opinion.

For example that Austrian made stuff here:

RU502 Kader-Rucksack 34 L Oliv

Vielfach erprobter Kaderrucksack Rückenausführung orthopädisch erprobt: durch besondere Formung bleibt der Dornfortsatz der Wirbelsäule frei 3 Zipp-Außentaschen Deckeltasche Reißverschlusstasche am Hüftgurt Fototasche Integriertes Regenschutzcape Volumen: ca. 34 L Maße: ca. 30 x 20 x 57cm...

www.essl-rucksack.at

(Original Austrian army, new.
Exists in larger versions too.)
.

 

[38thfoot]

Bit of a thread hijack but to me the issue is when the designer profits from the first batch which is then reverse engineered/copied and sold by someone else who has played no part in the development costs but profits from the design.

But that’s the world we live in; I buy alpkit stuff as I like the company and want it to continue, I could save some money but won’t be able to call them for a chat when it goes wrong.

It’s the same when people moan about amazon causing ships to close down when all they have to do is go to the shops themselves and they won’t; it’s not as convenient and is slightly more expensive but it means the shop will be there when you need help/advice/something that instant.

 

[Erbswurst]

My problem is, that I usually find shops who sell mainly Chinese stuff, with European brands on it, but made in China.

It would be no problem to run an outdoor shop with exclusively European production, but nobody does it!

And than they look sad, if people buy it directly in China or at Decathlon, where the same stuff is sold with great warranty for half the price or less.

I would support my local dealer, if he would support the local industry.
And the clients surely would be more convinced about the dealer, if he would sell them exclusively high quality products made in Europe.

I can't understand, why most sellers don't do that.

 

[Bam]

Bit of a thread hijack but to me the issue is when the designer profits from the first batch which is then reverse engineered/copied and sold by someone else who has played no part in the development costs but profits from the design.

But that’s the world we live in; I buy alpkit stuff as I like the company and want it to continue, I could save some money but won’t be able to call them for a chat when it goes wrong.

It’s the same when people moan about amazon causing ships to close down when all they have to do is go to the shops themselves and they won’t; it’s not as convenient and is slightly more expensive but it means the shop will be there when you need help/advice/something that instant.

I'm guilty of that, I think a lot of us are, seeing something online and getting it delivered within a day or two is VERY easy, not everywhere has even a half decent outdoorsy shop nearby, my nearest is about 6 miles and they're generic Trespass/Mountain Warehouse stores and not very big either. I do like a good rummage around Go Outdoors but that's the Tesco/Wetherspoons of outdoors stuff, nothing wrong with that, I use supermarkets too, just that like a lot of other aspects of our shopping 'experience' the 'giants' and 'online' have taken over. Life I guess although if I had a wee local place near enough I'd feel obliged to use it, whether they had what I wanted and enough locals would use it would be debatable.

 

[Erbswurst]

This hobby is on the level we are standing on, a hobby not so many people share.

I got my stuff mainly from 3 shops, before the internet started, one was a friend in Berlin, who bought NVA stuff and Equipment of the red army for a few coins after the reunification, sold it over years till he was sold out and had become rich by it.

The second was the outdoor shop next door which became part of the largest outdoor shop chaine in Germany.
I still often buy there.

The third was Räer in Hildesheim, (the guys with the current link problems) where I ordered from military stuff 35 years ago and still do it. Before I called them and asked for a printed catalogue. Now I visit theyr home page. But If I can, I visit Hildesheim, and spend half a day in theyr shop. Surplus I prefere to see before I buy it. Than I can choose the best stuff.

Yes, and in France I buy usually at Decathlon in the shops (Independent outdoor shops are nearly not existing there) and in Germany now a days something in every independent shop I come along. Everywhere I let a few Euros.
So it didn't really change so much.

But I ordered Swiss stuff from Zürich too in the eighties. I simply asked Swiss friends to go to the Surplus shop there and to send me the stuff.
Or my lavvu, the german boy scout tent, I bought in one of the couple of specialised shops in Germany. The first in Berlin, later I ordered that stuff in western Germany, before internet, from a catalogue.

And we went for holidays to Grossetto in Toscana, to buy a custom made racing bike in my fathers individual measures directly in the working rooms of the Master, because my father wanted a really fitting handcrafted frame on professional Tour de France level!

Exactly how I went last year to the black forest area, hundreds of kilometres away from where I usually live, to order handcrafted boots in individual measures.

That means: We always bought the high end stuff far away. 30 years ago, we had to wait half a year and to go there in holidays, today we can order in the internet.
But I usually think half a year about it, before I do it.

But the best special stuff we never bought next door!
My father went by car stop and hiking to munich to buy leather shorts, and to the north cap to by a puukko knive!
Yes, he did! Because he wanted one!

What the sport shop next door offered him didn't really convince him, even if it came from Solingen and surely wasn't bad!


Today it became easier.
;0)