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The World is Changing.

hodgson

Extremely Talkative
Messages
169
Points
350
Has anyone read "Collapse" by Jared Diamond? He looks at past societies and why they have collapsed. The Vikings survived in Greenland for 500 years but a combination of climate change and a failure in supply routes from Europe meant they had to change to survive and they couldn't. Easter Islanders, used trees to build fishing boats and to help them construct their monoliths. When the last tree was cut down the microclimate was affected and their crops failed and there were no more trees to build fishing boats, they couldn't change in time to save themselves. He suggests that our society is under similar pressures and if we don't change then we are heading the same way.
 

Keith

Very Addicted
Messages
1,630
Points
780
Age
72
Has anyone read "Collapse" by Jared Diamond? He looks at past societies and why they have collapsed. The Vikings survived in Greenland for 500 years but a combination of climate change and a failure in supply routes from Europe meant they had to change to survive and they couldn't. Easter Islanders, used trees to build fishing boats and to help them construct their monoliths. When the last tree was cut down the microclimate was affected and their crops failed and there were no more trees to build fishing boats, they couldn't change in time to save themselves. He suggests that our society is under similar pressures and if we don't change then we are heading the same way.
Good post, thank you. Very interesting. Personally I think that climate change is our biggest threat at this time. It is here now, & it is changing the way we have to do things & what we can grow. It is going to get a lot worse in my opinion.
Keith.
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
Messages
7,964
Points
1,180
over population is another one, every time they build a new house its less land for growing stuff on.
I don't know where all these people come from to buy houses in the westcountry, the locals sure cant afford them, must be middle class flight.
 

hodgson

Extremely Talkative
Messages
169
Points
350
Diamond suggests that individual threat can usually be met, but when they combine unless that society is prepared to change radically then they wont survive. The threats are certainly stacking against us, climate, food and water scarcity, and I don't see any governments willing to make the changes needed.
 

Ystranc

Moderator
Messages
5,397
Points
1,350
The political cost of making these necessary changes would mean that any government would be thrown out by the average self interested citizen once the hardship bit but before there could be much benefit. Look at Trump, elected on a populist vote by the disenfranchised rust belt population of the US and undoing any environmental advances made by the Obama administration, backing out of the Paris agreement was another example of him pandering to his voter demographic.
 

The Boogie Man

Quite Addicted
Messages
577
Points
710
Good post, thank you. Very interesting. Personally I think that climate change is our biggest threat at this time. It is here now, & it is changing the way we have to do things & what we can grow. It is going to get a lot worse in my opinion.
Keith.
Climate change is nothing new to our species, we survived super eruptions, Ice ages. It is going to get warmer, that's what the global temperature does in an interglacial period like we are in now. There used to be Hippo's in The Thames during one of the last interglacial periods, we've found the Fossils. I've sorted warm weather insect remains found in deposits from the North of England, acouple of centuries later they have gone, due to climate change, and all this without the hand of Man. I will be honest and say I do not believe a word about the modern interpretation of climate change, as it has more to do with politics and resource control. Consider this also, climate change theory is run by experts using "Models" on a computer, you will see very few scientists from the Geology, Palaeontology, and Archaeology fields debating this as they have hard evidence to the contrary. It's a con job:(
 

hodgson

Extremely Talkative
Messages
169
Points
350
Yep, climate does change, it is changing. In Cumbria we have had three "once in a hundred years" flooding events in the last 12 years. I used to wonder why hawthorn blossom was called "May" when it blossomed in June. Now it blossoms, every year, in May. In Jared Diamonds book he outlines how climate change has effected different societies throughout history. Some have survived through changing, some have collapsed. That is the challenge we face.
 

MikeR

Slightly Addicted
Messages
331
Points
470
Climate change is nothing new to our species, we survived super eruptions, Ice ages. It is going to get warmer, that's what the global temperature does in an interglacial period like we are in now. There used to be Hippo's in The Thames during one of the last interglacial periods, we've found the Fossils. I've sorted warm weather insect remains found in deposits from the North of England, acouple of centuries later they have gone, due to climate change, and all this without the hand of Man. I will be honest and say I do not believe a word about the modern interpretation of climate change, as it has more to do with politics and resource control. Consider this also, climate change theory is run by experts using "Models" on a computer, you will see very few scientists from the Geology, Palaeontology, and Archaeology fields debating this as they have hard evidence to the contrary. It's a con job:(
I'm inclined to agree Kublai. Archaeological evidence proves the cyclic nature of the long term weather patterns of the Earth. Global warming trends tend to be shown in centuries when in fact it should be millennia. However if the facts were shown in a the long term it would negate the proof that it's all our fault because the last 3 centuries of industrialisation I doubt would show on the timeline and that would not do!
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
Messages
7,964
Points
1,180
I kind of believe in climate change, not so much global warming but climate change.
when I was a kid right up to the 60s and beyond we had cold winters and warm summers, these days all the seasons seem to be rolled into one.
I have heard that some fish and other sea creatures are now found in British waters because of the warming sea, i'm not a scientist so I don't know about all this stuff, I can only go on what I see and hear.
 

MikeR

Slightly Addicted
Messages
331
Points
470
You're quite right Lonewolf. The weather and climate changes. What I can't buy into is that the latest warming cycle is the fault of man. I have always believed it is simply a smokescreen for peak oil and a means to control consumption by laying on a guilt trip.
 

The Boogie Man

Quite Addicted
Messages
577
Points
710
Climate change is real!! the climate has always changed and will continue to do so, but it is a natural phenomena as proven in the geological and fossil records. This interglacial will continue for thousands of years until the climate gradually declines into the next glacial cycle (ice age). The time this interglacial will last is not certain as the preceeding ones have differing time scales, but it will come to an end. Who knows--the ice caps may well melt--Europe may become sub-tropical again--lots of islands will sink below the Sea (as they did in the past)--Animals and Sea creatures will establish new territories as the old ones become extinct (it's all happened before many times).
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
Messages
7,964
Points
1,180
well mankind is putting all manner of stuff into the atmosphere from commerce and factories to forest burning for agriculture, and I think its kind of niave to believe that anything mankind does dosent have a negative effect on the climate.
 

Alanm

Extremely Talkative
Messages
132
Points
310
Age
54
Change is the only constant.It happens,be it climate or the way we make a living.Everything changes.As my dad was fond of saying,"adapt."
 

Simplestuff

Very Talkative
Messages
51
Points
170
Age
24
It’s crazy to think that the next ice age will come around and wipe us all out and it’ll all start over again. Kinda makes you wonder what the point is haha
 

Alanm

Extremely Talkative
Messages
132
Points
310
Age
54
Where there is life there is hope. Its our function to live ,procreate then die.The cycle of life.
 

Keith

Very Addicted
Messages
1,630
Points
780
Age
72
over population is another one, every time they build a new house its less land for growing stuff on.
I don't know where all these people come from to buy houses in the westcountry, the locals sure cant afford them, must be middle class flight.
That was one of the main reasons I left the UK, all my old haunts were being built on. Fields & woodland gone. It happened so fast & I could see where it was going.
Keith.
 
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