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Well it looks like BASC have thrown rifle users under the bus

What’s the big deal about this, there’s hundreds of stuff going into food that’s not good for us , and this is a focus point ! 🤦🏻‍♂️ I’m not savvy on this so stop me if I’m talking shit but why this and only this ?
 
What’s the big deal about this, there’s hundreds of stuff going into food that’s not good for us , and this is a focus point ! 🤦🏻‍♂️ I’m not savvy on this so stop me if I’m talking shit but why this and only this ?
Yep, even sugar and salt are bad for us but there are some things that are just downright poisonous - lead is one of them. It's a matter of knowledge and when we know it. There have been many things that have been completely legal in food - until we find out that it causes cancer or some other nasty thing, then it is banned. Lead is not one of these questionable things, it's been known to be toxic to man and beast for a very long time. The issue here is that we are still using lead to shoot our food. As I mentioned in a previous thread, the lead levels allowed in food is strictly controlled - except in game meat that has been shot. Remove the bullet you say! Yeah, but in pheasants or grouse that have been shot with a shotgun there isn't one bullet and even if you remove all the shot there are still high levels of lead that have permeated the meat.That's what this debate is all about.
 
We all know that BASC‘s primary concern is game shooting with shotguns but their response regarding rifled firearms is unhelpful at best.
After reading that report, admittedly not with a fine-tooth-comb, I can't see what you mean. It seemed to me to be very balanced - did I misread it or is your 'fear of the underhand' petticoat showing again? :) My own position is this: Lead shot, used in shotguns, is a damned menace and should be banned. It already is for wildfowlers and should be extended to all categories. For long rifles and air rifles I don't see any particular problem with lead. However, if an acceptable, non-toxic, substitute can be found I would support its use. Which, from my reading of that report, seems to be what they are saying.
 
How many people have died with a direct cause of lead poisoning from game meet ? Not that many, if any. And I’m reasonably sure that there’s products today that seep into food and or added to food that harms us… I just see things like this as a gimmick however I’m not saying I disagree with it , just think there’s better things to be reported and changed in regards to wildlife and our health .
 
Yep, even sugar and salt are bad for us but there are some things that are just downright poisonous - lead is one of them. It's a matter of knowledge and when we know it. There have been many things that have been completely legal in food - until we find out that it causes cancer or some other nasty thing, then it is banned. Lead is not one of these questionable things, it's been known to be toxic to man and beast for a very long time. The issue here is that we are still using lead to shoot our food. As I mentioned in a previous thread, the lead levels allowed in food is strictly controlled - except in game meat that has been shot. Remove the bullet you say! Yeah, but in pheasants or grouse that have been shot with a shotgun there isn't one bullet and even if you remove all the shot there are still high levels of lead that have permeated the meat.That's what this debate is all about.
Oxygen is toxic...........but we keep bloody breathing it o_O
(sorry, too flippant.)
 
The reason that I believe that BASC has failed us is the language used in their rather weak opening response. While they do argue to mitigate the ban on lead ammunition for rifled firearms later in their statement it is argued rather poorly considering more lead enters the food chain through outdated plumbing than it does from rifle ammunition.
 
Oxygen is toxic...........but we keep bloody breathing it o_O
(sorry, too flippant.)
My flippancy is perhaps misplaced, especially in the context of the article. I have long separated my thinking in overall terms with that of BASC and long since cancelled my membership as I felt their conservation ethos was way to heavily laden towards commercial shooting.
Anyway I shoot shot guns with lead and an airrifle with lead....so how do I balance all that up.?
As for consumption of lead, I have not heard any figures for human health, terminal or chronic with regards lead consumption THROUGH SHOT or PELLET INGESTION, but I do concern myself with lead in wounded animals, poorly shot, then allowed to die elsewhere and be perhaps consumed by raptors/foxes etc. But that is more to do with the ethics of the shooter? (ie shooting without respect due) Anglers have moved away from lead shot, as a problem being ingested by wildfowl or other avians: but what of discarded tackle which I find when canoeing, with monotonous regularity. All these things are a point of scale and if someone evidences something accordingly, then my "balancing" will change. Has done and will do, that is learning................

PS Oxygen IS toxic, stop breathing it!!
 
My flippancy is perhaps misplaced, especially in the context of the article. I have long separated my thinking in overall terms with that of BASC and long since cancelled my membership as I felt their conservation ethos was way to heavily laden towards commercial shooting.
Anyway I shoot shot guns with lead and an airrifle with lead....so how do I balance all that up.?
As for consumption of lead, I have not heard any figures for human health, terminal or chronic with regards lead consumption THROUGH SHOT or PELLET INGESTION, but I do concern myself with lead in wounded animals, poorly shot, then allowed to die elsewhere and be perhaps consumed by raptors/foxes etc. But that is more to do with the ethics of the shooter? (ie shooting without respect due) Anglers have moved away from lead shot, as a problem being ingested by wildfowl or other avians: but what of discarded tackle which I find when canoeing, with monotonous regularity. All these things are a point of scale and if someone evidences something accordingly, then my "balancing" will change. Has done and will do, that is learning................

PS Oxygen IS toxic, stop breathing it!!
We seem to be singing from pretty much the same hymn sheet. I have, and would, eat the occasional lead shot game, because lead is not an instant killer (like arsenic) it's one of those things that can build up in the body and cause problems, usually later in life, or to unborn babies and small children. To prevent this build up we have eradicted lead from food containers (who remembers old tin cans with a lead/tin solder joint?), we have switched to lead free paint, lead free petrol, lead free plumbing (banned since 1970, except in older private houses where the onus is on the owner to have it changed), lead free solder, and stopped selling lead split-shot for fishing. We have done this because lead, in the unnatural form that humans use it, is an environmental pollutant to all life. My concern is for the environment, not my personnal safety if I eat a pheasant that had been shot with lead.
Mike's concern is that any changes in the regulations for shotgun ammunition will, by stealth, creep over into rifles and air rifles. He has a point. The case for banning lead shot is pretty strong, the case for banning lead bullets/pellets is much more debatable.
 
We seem to be singing from pretty much the same hymn sheet. I have, and would, eat the occasional lead shot game, because lead is not an instant killer (like arsenic) it's one of those things that can build up in the body and cause problems, usually later in life, or to unborn babies and small children. To prevent this build up we have eradicted lead from food containers (who remembers old tin cans with a lead/tin solder joint?), we have switched to lead free paint, lead free petrol, lead free plumbing (banned since 1970, except in older private houses where the onus is on the owner to have it changed), lead free solder, and stopped selling lead split-shot for fishing. We have done this because lead, in the unnatural form that humans use it, is an environmental pollutant to all life. My concern is for the environment, not my personnal safety if I eat a pheasant that had been shot with lead.
Mike's concern is that any changes in the regulations for shotgun ammunition will, by stealth, creep over into rifles and air rifles. He has a point. The case for banning lead shot is pretty strong, the case for banning lead bullets/pellets is much more debatable.
Pretty much my feelings on the subject Paul. There is also the fact that the environment is already saturated with lead. From past petroleum use, industrial processes and paints to dissolved lead from our roofs and pipework. Lead has been a part of our landscape since before Roman times. Firearms owners have been the low hanging fruit that gets picked off by knee jerk legislation for as long as I can remember. They should first look at heavy industry for producing persistent poisonous chemicals….. but that might cost too much.
 
sorry, was trying to delete my message here, as was repeating myself. Too much lead shot on the muesli.....................
 
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