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Keith

Very Addicted
Messages
1,630
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780
Age
73
I thought I would run some thoughts past forum members to see what you think & promote discussion.

We are seeing petitions for saving Elephants & other wildlife, we are seeing petitions against coal & fracking & all manor of environmental issues. All these are valid concerns & DO NEED addressing, BUT, there has been NO world condemnation of the Genocide being committed in West Papua by the Indonesian Government, or the invasion of Thailand by the Chinese. These West Papuans were our WW2 allies & helped & saved many of our diggers.

So firstly my thoughts are: if the world's people & Governments can ignore this because of the money being made from the gold & copper mining in West Papua, is it not possible that they could ignore other atrocities elsewhere in the world also for power & greed for wealth?

Secondly, what if Indonesia decided to attack Australia? The American President Donald Trump owns or owns a large part of the Gold & copper mining in West Papua under the control of the Indonesian Government. The UK Government is silent on the Genocide in West Papua, as of course is the USA. So is anyone likely to come to our aid if this were to happen?

Thirdly, how secure do you feel that your government (wherever you are) would not throw you to the dogs if it meant huge gains for the politicians? We all know that gun control has no effect on crime or suicide rates, & yet America is under constant threat of it's third amendment rights, & the UK & Australia have both had gun control/gun confiscations & are constantly under the threat of more of the same. Is this just the government trying to gain votes from the anti-gun lobby, or is there a more sinister reason? (the New World order for instance?).I know I would not trust our government, Liberal or Labor as far as I could spit a rat, they are both corrupt to the core & only in it for themselves. I do not feel secure at all. Past government actions have proven that they are not in power to look after the people.
Keith.
 
Messages
7,738
Points
1,760
As you already know Keith, I consider our politicians to be greedy self serving incompetents. I have very little faith in them but because of our common heritage I'd hope that the British people would demand that we come to the aid of the ADF...you'd just have to count us all back out again afterward though to make sure we all left before you run out of beer......either that or grant a visa amnesty.
 

Keith

Very Addicted
Messages
1,630
Points
780
Age
73
As you already know Keith, I consider our politicians to be greedy self serving incompetents. I have very little faith in them but because of our common heritage I'd hope that the British people would demand that we come to the aid of the ADF...you'd just have to count us all back out again afterward though to make sure we all left before you run out of beer......either that or grant a visa amnesty.
Mate I wouldn't be in any hurry to see any of them leave & we rarely run out of beer :) Though stout can be hard to come by sometimes, the restaurants buy it in bulk for cooking. I have some cold ones in the fridge should you drop by.
Keith.
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
Messages
7,964
Points
1,180
I don't trust politicians as far as I can throw them, Blair and Bush jnr are both war criminals as far as I am concerned, Corbyn is an out an out Marxist, and there are forces at work here trying to overthrow the will of the majority and stop Brexit in its tracks.
most wars started by the US or UK seem to be about either regime change or oil or both.
 

swamp rat

Extremely Talkative
Messages
232
Points
410
Age
50
yea like lonewolf says all about oil, or more to the point keeping the price of oil down. we are living under a corrupt government and a false economy. that is balancing on a knife edge of collapse
oil is still the blood line of this county with the way we move everything around food ect.
if the mid east puts the price of oil right up. it would tip us over the top, it would be a domino affect with the price of food going up.
this would trigger a complete melt down.
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
Messages
7,964
Points
1,180
I was around when we nearly had petrol rationing in the 70s because of an OPEC shortage of oil.
rationing cards were issued but in the end it all blew over.
 

greenbear

Extremely Addicted
Messages
2,581
Points
960
Thirdly, how secure do you feel that your government (wherever you are) would not throw you to the dogs if it meant huge gains for the politicians?

I am sad to say I feel that, in some ways, this has already happened in the UK. The self serving slime that govern us seem to be wholly preoccupied with their own self preservation and promotion. Recently, for example, we have had a general election that rather than strengthen the tenure of our prime minister has only served to weaken it, and any interview with any notable conservative politician clearly shows that they are all queuing up to oust Mrs May at a time when the focus should be on getting a good Brexit deal. Career over the wellbeing of the populace....oh well....we live with the corrupt system that is democracy and the self serving monetary system that is capitalism (I imagine Adam Smith must be spinning in his grave as I am sure the greed and corruption of today is not what he intended when we wrote his masterpiece "Wealth of Nations").

I am of the opinion that it serves government as a whole to have different agendas and campaigns that are not unified and, even (and I apologise for the crassness of mentioning this) the horrors of the Grenfell Tower disaster seem to have been used as a political tool when the focus should simply be on "making bloody sure a tower block fire can't happen again". And, do please, have a think about the murder of Jo Cox, where politicians rallied round to use her awful death as a tool to promote their own political wishes for Brexit (she may have been a pro-Brexit MP but I tend to think of her as a Wife and Mother foremost - that's where the tragedy is - that her family have lost a most beloved person). Or take, for example, HS2. Hospitals unable to function for lack of money to recruit nurses and doctors but £50bn available to build a giant trainset so businessmen can save twenty minutes on the journey from London to Birmingham (Mr Cameron's words, not mine). Twenty minutes to do what? Take a piss before they get into a taxi at New Street, and we, my friends, pay for that crass misuse of money through our taxes. Nope, we are on own pretty much already.

(Ooh I'm feeling like a revolutionary today - must be the hangover :rolleyes:)
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
Messages
7,964
Points
1,180
many people will see their homes demolished so that the HS2 line can go through, many being new houses, just like BB says so that someone can save a few minutes on their train journey, in the meantime we only have one rail line through the south coast of Devon into Cornwall, if that is blocked or flooded the west country is cut off by rail from the rest of the country, but have they done anything about it? have they hell.
we are losing the Hospital at Okehampton and possibly even the one in Barnstaple, including the maternity units,so everyone will have to go to Exeter in future, anywhere north of Barnstaple say Ilfracombe that's a 100 mile round trip!!
but don't expect someone sitting in an ivory tower in Westminster to even know where "the westcountry" is!!!
 
Last edited:

Keith

Very Addicted
Messages
1,630
Points
780
Age
73
I am sad to say I feel that, in some ways, this has already happened in the UK. The self serving slime that govern us seem to be wholly preoccupied with their own self preservation and promotion. Recently, for example, we have had a general election that rather than strengthen the tenure of our prime minister has only served to weaken it, and any interview with any notable conservative politician clearly shows that they are all queuing up to oust Mrs May at a time when the focus should be on getting a good Brexit deal. Career over the wellbeing of the populace....oh well....we live with the corrupt system that is democracy and the self serving monetary system that is capitalism (I imagine Adam Smith must be spinning in his grave as I am sure the greed and corruption of today is not what he intended when we wrote his masterpiece "Wealth of Nations").

I am of the opinion that it serves government as a whole to have different agendas and campaigns that are not unified and, even (and I apologise for the crassness of mentioning this) the horrors of the Grenfell Tower disaster seem to have been used as a political tool when the focus should simply be on "making bloody sure a tower block fire can't happen again". And, do please, have a think about the murder of Jo Cox, where politicians rallied round to use her awful death as a tool to promote their own political wishes for Brexit (she may have been a pro-Brexit MP but I tend to think of her as a Wife and Mother foremost - that's where the tragedy is - that her family have lost a most beloved person). Or take, for example, HS2. Hospitals unable to function for lack of money to recruit nurses and doctors but £50bn available to build a giant trainset so businessmen can save twenty minutes on the journey from London to Birmingham (Mr Cameron's words, not mine). Twenty minutes to do what? Take a piss before they get into a taxi at New Street, and we, my friends, pay for that crass misuse of money through our taxes. Nope, we are on own pretty much already.

(Ooh I'm feeling like a revolutionary today - must be the hangover :rolleyes:)

Yes, well in that respect our government has let us down also, & I feel it will only get worse from here on in. That I think is the problem, we no longer think of this gross corruptness as a major situation, it has come on us piece by piece until we find that we have lost so much. Now we are looking for something much larger to happen & all the time we are losing more rights & freedoms bit by bit.
Keith.
 

swamp rat

Extremely Talkative
Messages
232
Points
410
Age
50
yep it is the old boiling frog

if you drop a frog in boiling water it will jump straight out
but if you put the frog in cold water then bring it to the boil slowly it
will just sit there until it boils to death
 

Keith

Very Addicted
Messages
1,630
Points
780
Age
73
yep it is the old boiling frog

if you drop a frog in boiling water it will jump straight out
but if you put the frog in cold water then bring it to the boil slowly it
will just sit there until it boils to death
Only English frogs. Over here they will jump into a stew & stay there!
Keith.
 

Keith

Very Addicted
Messages
1,630
Points
780
Age
73
And yet we carry on electing more politicians in the hope that the new lot will be better then the last lot instead of telling them all to piss off............I wonder why?
That is exactly right. No one in the majority of voters seems to get this point. Nothing is going to change because it is the system that allows corruption to happen. The government needs sacking, the whole lot, & a new system needs to be put in place where by corruption can not happen or not happen without consequences. Australia is not being governed/managed, it is being ruled. The people are not in control, I am not sure that they ever were. Nothing will change unless something happens negatively to the majority of the wealthy. Corporations are running the country & they have no interest in looking after the common people.
I think it is a vicious tangled web which encompasses crime, power & greed. Crime appears to be manipulated so that it can be used as part of the government's terror campaign. They keep the people scared so they will be relying on the government for protection. The people are not allowed to purchase or carry anything for use in self defence, & yet the police are unable to protect them. The government can not protect them & yet they persist as you say to be dependent & to continue making the same mistakes over & over. I don't think anything will ever change unless there is a major break down in society, a shtf or a teotwawki if you like. A revolution is a dream that will never happen.
Keith.
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
Messages
7,964
Points
1,180
yep it is the old boiling frog

if you drop a frog in boiling water it will jump straight out
but if you put the frog in cold water then bring it to the boil slowly it
will just sit there until it boils to death
not sure what that has to do with government and politicians??:p
 

lonewolf

Neo Luddite Prepared Survivalist.
Messages
7,964
Points
1,180
That is exactly right. No one in the majority of voters seems to get this point. Nothing is going to change because it is the system that allows corruption to happen. The government needs sacking, the whole lot, & a new system needs to be put in place where by corruption can not happen or not happen without consequences. Australia is not being governed/managed, it is being ruled. The people are not in control, I am not sure that they ever were. Nothing will change unless something happens negatively to the majority of the wealthy. Corporations are running the country & they have no interest in looking after the common people.
I think it is a vicious tangled web which encompasses crime, power & greed. Crime appears to be manipulated so that it can be used as part of the government's terror campaign. They keep the people scared so they will be relying on the government for protection. The people are not allowed to purchase or carry anything for use in self defence, & yet the police are unable to protect them. The government can not protect them & yet they persist as you say to be dependent & to continue making the same mistakes over & over. I don't think anything will ever change unless there is a major break down in society, a shtf or a teotwawki if you like. A revolution is a dream that will never happen.
Keith.
SHTF should do the trick Keith!!!:p it'll only take some foreign policy by our government that other countries don't like to shut off the supply of food/oil/electricity etc etc. then sit back and watch the sheeple panic!!!
 

greenbear

Extremely Addicted
Messages
2,581
Points
960
And yet we carry on electing more politicians in the hope that the new lot will be better then the last lot instead of telling them all to piss off............I wonder why?

This is a good point Ystranc. I can only speak for myself, but in the recent election I voted labour, not because I wanted a labour government but in the hope they might oust the current conservative administration (which I am of the opinion is the worst govt since John Major's conservative government - spot a them emerging here?).

Otherwise I tend to vote green, not because I feel that they will ever garner enough votes to get into power, but because I feel that green issues should have a strong voice, as we only have one planet and it is systematically being raped by the greedy moneyheads. A strong green party means green policies from whoever is in power and that, by default, protects our wildlands and forests, which in my mind has to be good (I am also a closet birdwatcher so I take a keen interest in these matters regardless).

In the late 1980's Germany elected green MEP's and the green movement in the UK grew very rapidly, as a result Mrs Thatcher suddenly had a whole raft of green policies brought in during her last term in office so, to my mind, that demonstrates that tactical voting does have a genuine impact on the political scene. Obviously what I cannot predict is whether a strong green party would be any less corrupt and self serving that the current govt/opposition parties etc but, in truth, when it comes to the crunch I suspect they wouldn't - but for me it is that option or the grim realities of fighting for change within our political system.
 

greenbear

Extremely Addicted
Messages
2,581
Points
960
SHTF should do the trick Keith!!!:p it'll only take some foreign policy by our government that other countries don't like to shut off the supply of food/oil/electricity etc etc. then sit back and watch the sheeple panic!!!

It would LW, but why should a group of self serving overpaid fools be allowed to wield the influence that could destroy half of mankind?
 
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