Government consultation on banning long blades or machetes

[GaryHW]

That’s the whole problem. Bushcraft knives and conservation tools such as billhooks and Martindales are being conflated with zombie knives and Anglo arms machetes that are designed to look like fantasy fiction weapons. Then you have foreign internet sellers importing helical daggers, punch daggers, belt buckle knives, combat knives etc (all banned already)… people are just panicking and a panic reaction is rarely well thought out.

Isn't that typical of the whole urban vs rural thing these days?

Problem is knife crime is a urban/intercity thing (mostly) so the law makers who are generally urbanites or even London centric see it as wide spread and act accordingly, so rural folk suffer for the minority in cities. Goes hand in hand with fox hunting, gun ownership and other rural past times that city folk see as out of date or morally wrong or whatever. Then there's political activists too, most knife crime is black on black and gang related but you cant say that because of political activists who get all excited and start name calling etc so instead of dealing with the problem the easy answer, that doesn't offend anyone who is easily offended but very vocal, is to bring in a carpet ban.

Going a bit off topic but to try to explain my point a little, lets look at the whole transgender thing going on right now, not only do we have politicians who are scared to answer the what is a women question because they don't want to be called nasty names (bless em) but we also have find that at its core are very rich people who bank roll the activists because they own the pharmaceutical companies that make the hormone stopping drugs and such - so instead of protecting the majority of normal men and women the powers that be now tip toe around a very small minority and bring in laws etc to protect them - same with knife crime instead of going after the criminals and those who fund them or the activists who encourage it, the easy answer is to punish everyone, so the majority suffer once again for the minority.

wow bit of rant there - sorry

 

[Baytree]

I have a machete in the van , it's not a particulary pretty thing , it's a fairly cheap one with a plastic handle and a bend to the blade and a couple of nicks in it. It's a tool pure and simple. In my bucket of gardening tools there are a couple of knives , a six inch one with a thin blade that's good for getting weeds out of cracks or joints in driveways and a longer bladed knife that works well for general weeding and lifting things like dandelions. Again neither are that pretty or for that matter razor sharp but they are basically kitchen knives. I also re-enact the wars of the roses period and that involves blades of all kinds. Many are tools and most of us carry a sharp eating knife at most times. There are swords and pole arms that are generally blunted for the battles ( as letting out a secret , we're not really trying to kill each other ) but we do have sharp ones for display. Then of course there are arrows and a smattering of guns. I don't feel I'm in imminent danger of being arrested but it's interesting to keep an eye on this. We may not be being accused of using blades in any illegal manner but I could see us being accused of glorifying or normalizing the carrying of a knife.

 

[Ystranc]

I have a tiny problem with just one part of that statement

Isn't that typical of the whole urban vs rural thing these days?

….. so rural folk suffer for the minority in cities.…

There are less than half as many people in the whole of Wales than there are in London, of those Welsh population the majority live in large towns or cities. Country folk are massively outnumbered.
It’s even worse than that though. If you are tried in court for a knife crime you will almost certainly be tried in a city with a jury drawn from a nice convenient pool of city folk to whom possession of a machete is proof positive that you are a psychopathic criminal. Luckily Dyfed Powys police have much more sense than to prosecute every single person for something as petty unless it’s actually been used as a weapon. Coincidentally Dyfed Powys police authority has the second highest ownership of firearms with 1 firearm for every 11 people (men, women and children) along with the second lowest rate of firearms related crime.
Look in any garden shed around here and you will see sights that would make a medieval armourer’s heart sing. Bill hooks, slashers, sickles, cultivators, spikes on sticks. you name it, it’s out there.

 

[Pelagia]

Hello everyone!
I'm back in the room!
I see this as the same as the drive in the US to ban all guns. Which is :To disarm the population who just want to carry them to feel safe and to defend themselves.
Which was written as topmost importance into the US constitution for a reason.
Banning knives will only punish sensible law-abiding knife users, whilst the real criminals will continue carrying, including huge machetes which they are increasingly using to attack people in the streets in broad daylight in the UK.
In short I see it as more government over-reach in the guise of protecting the public which will do nothing to protect us but leave us even more open to the knife-carrying thugs.

 

[Pelagia]

They'll be coming for our cutlery next....

 

[Ystranc]

They'll be coming for our cutlery next....

They’ll have us all eating off rubber spoons.
The acting chief constable of Merseyside police is currently the subject of an official complaint for unlawfully trying to coerce law abiding firearm owners to surrender legally owned firearms after he admitted to the policy during a press conference. The government and police would do better to reduce the number of guns and knives in the hands of real criminals rather than criminalise the entire general public.

 

[Pelagia]

They’ll have us all eating off rubber spoons.
The acting chief constable of Merseyside police is currently the subject of an official complaint for unlawfully trying to coerce law abiding firearm owners to surrender legally owned firearms after he admitted to the policy during a press conference. The government and police would do better to reduce the number of guns and knives in the hands of real criminals rather than criminalise the entire general public.

Rubber spoons it will be right enough! With warnings printed on them about making sure you don't choke on them!

 

[GaryHW]

It's a good job we wont have any knives, otherwise we might carve spoons and get splinters in our wittle thumbsies !

 

[GaryHW]

Banning knives will only punish sensible law-abiding knife users, whilst the real criminals will continue carrying, including huge machetes which they are increasingly using to attack people in the streets in broad daylight in the UK.
In short I see it as more government over-reach in the guise of protecting the public which will do nothing to protect us but leave us even more open to the knife-carrying thugs.

I've never really been a conspiracy theorist, indeed when I was in the Army I actually believed the government really wanted the best for the people, but these days I can not decide whether the so called leaders have absolutely lost their way and want to wrap us all in cotton wool and hope the bad people go away like doting old grandmothers - or whether, and I feel the covid lock downs tested this (we are en-prisoning you all in your own homes to keep you safe because we love you, trust us we have your safety at heart), they now feel they can assert more and more control over us to the point on rendering the population impotent and therefore totally submissive to them thus allowing them to rein supreme.

It has been said more than once they the more people depend on the government, the more they allow them to control their lives. Problem is if that is the sinister reality we have a further problem because the police force who should be there to protect us are currently as corrupt and perverse, woke and degenerate as our so called leaders!

Or put another way, if the wolves can get rid of the sheepdogs then they can have the sheep at will.

 

[Manthing]

Banning things solves all the problems. After all, nobody does drugs or speeds on the roads any more do they?

 

[Ystranc]

It’s just the government trying to appear tough on crime when they don’t actually have a clue how to fix the problem of knife crime.

 

[Pelagia]

I've never really been a conspiracy theorist, indeed when I was in the Army I actually believed the government really wanted the best for the people, but these days I can not decide whether the so called leaders have absolutely lost their way and want to wrap us all in cotton wool and hope the bad people go away like doting old grandmothers - or whether, and I feel the covid lock downs tested this (we are en-prisoning you all in your own homes to keep you safe because we love you, trust us we have your safety at heart), they now feel they can assert more and more control over us to the point on rendering the population impotent and therefore totally submissive to them thus allowing them to rein supreme.

It has been said more than once they the more people depend on the government, the more they allow them to control their lives. Problem is if that is the sinister reality we have a further problem because the police force who should be there to protect us are currently as corrupt and perverse, woke and degenerate as our so called leaders!

Or put another way, if the wolves can get rid of the sheepdogs then they can have the sheep at will.

In my opinion
I don't really know what the term conspiracy theorist means. It seems to be used to mock people with open minds to me. Sometimes people or groups of people, make plans in secret. (Or conspire). We've seen lots of evidence of that recently.
I had lots of faith in the Scottish govt until very recently. I had to get over that in order to see what was really going on and it took me roughly a year after the start of the p(l)andemic. My faith was misplaced. And yes, it's all about control. Increased govt control.
And yes, sadly I think we do have big problems.
We need to remember that the government works FOR us. They are our servants and are supposed to serve us. We are sovereign and governments should fear us, we should not fear them.

 

[Ark79]

In my opinion
I don't really know what the term conspiracy theorist means. It seems to be used to mock people with open minds to me. Sometimes people or groups of people, make plans in secret. (Or conspire). We've seen lots of evidence of that recently.
I had lots of faith in the Scottish govt until very recently. I had to get over that in order to see what was really going on and it took me roughly a year after the start of the p(l)andemic. My faith was misplaced. And yes, it's all about control. Increased govt control.
And yes, sadly I think we do have big problems.
We need to remember that the government works FOR us. They are our servants and are supposed to serve us. We are sovereign and governments should fear us, we should not fear them.

I’ll agree with that

 

[Ystranc]

We need to remember that the government works FOR us. They are our servants and are supposed to serve us. We are sovereign and governments should fear us, we should not fear them.

I also agree but only up to a point, I don’t believe that we should have to fear them nor that they should have to fear us. I believe what I want from government is that tomorrow should follow on pretty much the same as yesterday and that the schools and hospitals function. I would like roads without potholes and trains that run on time. A properly funded police force and crown prosecution service. What I don’t want is a lot of overpaid control freaks attempting to be re elected, trying to big themselves up in the media with harebrained ideas of what we should and should not be “allowed”.

 

[Ark79]

I also agree but only up to a point, I don’t believe that we should have to fear them nor that they should have to fear us. I believe what I want from government is that tomorrow should follow on pretty much the same as yesterday and that the schools and hospitals function. I would like roads without potholes and trains that run on time. A properly funded police force and crown prosecution service. What I don’t want is a lot of overpaid control freaks attempting to be re elected, trying to big themselves up in the media with harebrained ideas of what we should and should not be “allowed”.

it’s not much to ask , is it ? Would be nice tho …Westminster seems like an unfunny sitcom and Bollywood is the spin off series.

Edited , not Bollywood,,, Holyrood same different continent

 

[GaryHW]

In my opinion
I don't really know what the term conspiracy theorist means. It seems to be used to mock people with open minds to me. Sometimes people or groups of people, make plans in secret. (Or conspire). We've seen lots of evidence of that recently.
I had lots of faith in the Scottish govt until very recently. I had to get over that in order to see what was really going on and it took me roughly a year after the start of the p(l)andemic. My faith was misplaced. And yes, it's all about control. Increased govt control.
And yes, sadly I think we do have big problems.
We need to remember that the government works FOR us. They are our servants and are supposed to serve us. We are sovereign and governments should fear us, we should not fear them.

Agreed.

As the saying goes, "just because your paranoid doesn't mean people aren't talking about you" likewise, just because you consider the government or big corporations to be conspiring against the populace doesn't mean they aren't!

In fact it would be naïve to think otherwise IMO.

It’s just the government trying to appear tough on crime when they don’t actually have a clue how to fix the problem of knife crime.

True, and they don't have the power to fix it. The police, police by consent, and their aren't enough of them. So they have to focus on were best to use their power, sadly their leaders, like so many others, are more worried about being seen to be PC and effective rather than actually being effective and sadly to be effective they can not be PC because certain crimes are more prevalent among certain communities or groups.

It's a sad world where authority figures and organizations have their hands tied behind their backs because they are worried about being called names instead of doing their job!

 

[Ystranc]

It's a sad world where authority figures and organizations have their hands tied behind their backs because they are worried about being called names instead of doing their job!

I do quite like the nickname Cruella Braverman. It’s a bit of a gift really.

 

[38thfoot]

As I’ve said previously I do see a purpose for items that are used as tools such as machetes but not for those things that are very clearly styled or designed as a weapon. I appreciate that the vast majority of knife crime is conducted using kitchen knives because they are the easiest to get hold of but I’d rather teenage thugs carried a kitchen knife that is sharp than something that is designed from the outset as a weapon because by design that is more effective at hurting people.

What an amendment to the law does do is give the police and the courts wriggle room. My best friend is a recently retired policeman and his view is that he didn’t have to arrest someone for carrying a knife but he could if he felt the need (because they were drunk, acting in a threatening manner, were a known gang member etc) and he then had the law to back him up. He would be unlikely to arrest you if you had a machete in a rucksack (with all your other knives/bladed tools) on the way to the woods; he could arrest you if you had it hanging off your belt or on a lanyard around your next but didn’t have to. This takes common sense on both parties and experience on the part of the Police but helps them enforce the law which fundamentally should be a good thing.

I don’t see it as ‘the man’ deepening his/her control over society and I don’t care if a political party times the announcement to get kudos because they all do it.

38

 

[CaveDweller]

. What I don’t want is a lot of overpaid control freaks attempting to be re elected, trying to big themselves up in the media with harebrained ideas of what we should and should not be “allowed”.

Spot on. If you look at the wording of the prevention of crime act 1953, it already has very broad ranging definitions of what constitutes a 'weapon'. It's pretty much "if you intend to use it as a weapon, the law sees it as a weapon". Even a pencil can fall under that act.

"an offensive weapon is any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him or by some other person."

In my (not a lawyer) view, banning specific types of bladed article won't achieve anything that isn't already covered by the 1953 act, and would indeed be 'bigging themselves up' for the sake of looking tough to voters.

 

[Ystranc]

Well the result is in, we replied to their consultation, they listened to our concerns and then raised two fingers at us and decided to go ahead anyway.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1180791/Government_Response_to_Machetes_Consultation_-_CLEAN.pdf

Time to pack away all your sharp objects, knitting needles, cutlery (although I expect spoons to be exempt)